Bin Laden Transcript - Page 4

**Apophis** · 11-01-2004, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

i dont care if his reasoning makes lots of sense , as i have already said if you had cared to read rater than just pick.

hmm going to have to shoot you in the foot slightly here, but some of the most funding the IRA got was from americans, whilst it wasnt government, your government wasnt exactly stoppng or caring for that matter, and the IRA are a very organised cell.

I don't really want to get into the IRA/American funding issues in this thread. It really doesn't have any bearing on the Saddam issue and his funding and reward of terrorism. America ignoring donations to the IRA doesn't have any bearing on Saddam's activities.

I'm not saying you don't have a point, just that it's an issue for a different thread.

**Apophis** · 11-01-2004, 05:52 PM

Here is an article from March, 2002:

Quote:

March 26 2002

The Iraqi leader's payments to the families of dead Palestinian terrorists means more trouble for Yasser Arafat, writes Paul McGeough in the West Bank.

The hall was packed and the intake of breath was audible as a special announcement was made to the war widows of the West Bank - Saddam Hussein would pay $US25,000 ($47,000) to the family of each suicide bomber as an enticement for others to volunteer for martyrdom in the name of the Palestinian people.

The men at the top table then opened Saddam's chequebook and, as the names of 47 martyrs were called, family representatives went up to sign for cheques written in US dollars.

Those of two suicide bombers were the first to be paid the new rate of $US25,000 and those whose relatives had died in other clashes with the Israeli military were given $US10,000 each.

The $US500,000 doled out in this impoverished community yesterday means that the besieged Iraqi leader now has contributed more than $US10 million to grieving Palestinian families since the new intifada began 18 months ago.

But the timing of this clear signal that Saddam is stoking the Middle East conflict with his new $US15,000 bonus to encourage more suicide bombers - and exclusive pictures from the distribution ceremony, which was attended by the Herald - could make it more difficult for the Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, to manage his already strained relationship with the United States.

Because the Palestinians and the Israelis have been unable to agree to a ceasefire during the US-brokered talks that began in Jerusalem two weeks ago, Mr Arafat may be denied an opportunity to put the Palestinian case directly to the US Vice-President, Dick Cheney.

As well, the Israelis have yet to decide if they will lift Mr Arafat's effective house arrest to allow him to travel to Beirut for this week's summit of Arab leaders that is to discuss a Saudi Arabian plan to end the crisis.

And now, the US and Israel will have the opportunity to accuse Mr Arafat of being in the embrace of two of President Bush's three "axis of evil" countries, Iraq and Iran.

The New York Times reported on Saturday the suspicion of US and Israeli intelligence agencies that Mr Arafat had developed an alliance with Iran to import weapons worth millions of dollars to be used by Palestinian fighters.

Mr Arafat has denied any knowledge of a recent shipment of Iranian arms seized by the Israelis on its way to Palestine.

But he may be hard pressed to deny knowledge of a public ceremony on his own territory, during which supporters of Saddam handed out $US500,000 and encouraged others to become suicide bombers with the blessing of the Iraqi leader.

The US will also be keen to use Saddam's provocative intrusion into the Palestinian-Israeli conflict as another reason for its planned military strike against him.

Yesterday's ceremony at Tulkarm, about 90 kilometres north of Jerusalem, was the first public distribution organised by the Arab Liberation Front, a small PLO faction closely aligned with Saddam's Ba'ath Party. Previously, the cheques were delivered privately by officials of the front to the homes of martyr families.

A senior front official, Ma'amoon Tayeh, said that the extra $US15,000 was to encourage more Palestinians to volunteer as suicide bombers to help "confirm the legitimacy of our national questions".

He said: "Saddam Hussein considers Palestine to be a governate of Iraq and he thinks the same of the Palestinian martyrs as he does of Iraqi martyrs - they all are martyrs for the whole Arab nation."

Dr Hassan Khraisheh, a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council who told the crowd he had just returned from a solidarity conference in Baghdad, said some families believed the money should be sent back to Iraq because of the hardships imposed by sanctions; others used the money to " buy weapons to defend Palestine".

Later, he praised Iraq as the only Arab country officially donating to the Palestinian cause.

"The Saudis used to give $US4000 to the martyrs, but now it depends on public donations.

"Saddam Hussein's $US25,000 is a message to those who might offer themselves as martyrs that their families will be supported ..."

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/...?oneclick=true

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48822,00.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...le.asp?ID=1309

http://www.intelmessages.org/Message...s_02/4528.html

**Apophis** · 11-01-2004, 06:06 PM

An article from 2002:

Quote:

Taliban-style group grows in Iraq

In the Kurdish north, a new Islamist group with ties to Al Qaeda has killed women without burqas, seized villages.

By Catherine Taylor | Special to The Christian Science Monitor

HALABJA, NORTHERN IRAQ – A radical Islamist group – with possible links to Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein – is growing and threatening the stability of the Kurdish region in northern Iraq.
The group – Ansar al-Islam – emerged just days before the Sept. 11 attacks on the US. It delivered a fatwa, or manifesto, to the citizens in mountain villages against "the blasphemous secularist, political, social, and cultural" society there, according to Kurdish party leaders.

Since, Ansar al-Islam has nearly doubled in size to 700, including Iraqis, Jordanians, Moroccans, Palestinians, and Afghans – a composition similar to the multinational Al Qaeda network. Villagers here claim it has ransacked and razed beauty salons, burned schools for girls, and murdered women in the streets for refusing to wear the burqa. It has seized a Taliban-style enclave of 4,000 civilians and several villages near the Iran border.

With the US dedicated to rooting out Al Qaeda's influence wherever it surfaces in the world, a group of Islamic extremists in northern Iraq with even loose ties to Al Qaeda could complicate further any Iraq intervention. Already the US is in a delicate dance with allies over how to handle Iraq, with many warning that the US must consider the implications of possible instability that a move to topple Hussein could cause.

The emergence of the group comes as the US ramps up pressure on the Hussein regime in Iraq over weapons development. In a White House press conference on Wednesday, President Bush said Hussein "is a problem, and we're going to deal with him."

The State Department did not have extensive information on Ansar al-Islam, but one official there said he was aware of its existence and connection to Al Qaeda.

US ties to Kurd groups

The US has longtime ties to Iraq's Kurdish opposition groups, and would have to gauge how those groups – which inspire varying levels of confidence among key US officials – might want to exploit or downplay the existence of groups with ties to bin Laden in their midst.

Ansar is challenging the two main Kurdish political factions – the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) and the Kurdish Democratic Party (KDP) – in northern Iraq.

But the PUK and KDP – which have spent much of the past 11 years fighting among themselves for control of northern Iraq – say they have united against this common enemy.

"[Ansar] al-Islam is a kind of Taliban," says PUK leader Jalal Talibani. "They are terrorists who have declared war against all Kurdish political parties. We gave them a chance to change their ways ... and end their terrorist acts. But if we can't do it through dialogue, we are obliged to use force."

Kurdish fighters, known as peshmerga, now patrol the road between Iraqi Kurdistan's southern city of Sulaymaniyah and Halabja.

On Sept. 23, Kurds here say, guerrillas ambushed a PUK unit and killed 42 soldiers. The ambush came after negotiations between the PUK and Ansar al-Islam, offering amnesty in return for peace, failed to end their activities.

Since the Sept. 23 ambush, peshmerga have pushed Ansar al-Islam back toward the Iranian border where they retain a stronghold in the town of Biara and surrounding villages.

"We have captured two of [Ansar's] bases and found the walls covered with poems and graffiti praising bin Laden and the Sept. 11 attacks on the US," says Mustapha Saed Qada, a PUK commander. "In one, there is a picture of the twin towers with a drawing of bin Laden standing on the top holding a Kalashnikov rifle in one hand and a knife in the other." He adds that the group has received $600,000 from the bin Laden network, and a delivery of weapons and Toyota landcruisers.

In an interview with the Kurdish newspaper Hawlati, the group's leader, Mala Kreker, declared bin Laden the "crown on the head of the Islamic nation."

Ansar al-Islam's leaders

Kurdish military sources say that Ansar al-Islam's Mr. Kreker is a former member of a Kurdish Islamic party who joined Ansar al-Islam after its formation in September. Kreker replaced Abu Abdullah Shafae – an Iraqi Kurd who trained with Al Qaeda in Afghanistan for 10 years – and changed his name from Warya Holery. Mr. Shafae is now Ansar al-Islam's deputy.

Another of the group's leaders, Abu Abdul Rahman – who, the Kurds claim, was sent to northern Iraq by bin Laden – was killed in fighting in October.

Commander Qada also claims that Ansar al-Islam has ties to agents of Saddam Hussein operating in northern Iraq. "We have picked up conversations on our radios between Iraqis and [Ansar] al-Islam," he says from his military base in Halabja. "I believe that Iraq is also funding [Ansar] al-Islam. There are no hard facts as yet, but I believe that under the table they are supporting them because it will cause further instability for the Kurds."

Barhim Salih, a PUK leader, says a second group affiliated with Ansar al-Islam is working from the Baghdad-controlled city of Mosul.

The Kurdish sources say Hussein's involvement in any mission to destabilize their autonomous ministate would not surprise them. Since 1991, Baghdad has been unable to control the north, because of the no-fly zone created by the US and England and enforced by the US military from a base in Turkey.

Still, in November, Hussein warned that he would "cut out the tongues" of any Kurds who defied him. This month he told the Kurds not to be "deceived" by "the foreigner." But he added: "I do not want anyone to be under the illusion that this leadership is calling for dialogue because it is under futile threats."

Since Sept. 11, Qada says the Iraqi Army has doubled its troops stationed on the border between government-controlled Iraq and the area the Kurds control. It is a clear sign, Qada says, that Hussein will attack them if the US threatens his regime.

Attempts by the PUK to renew negotiations with the group during the past month have failed, and Kurdish sources say Ansar al-Islam is preparing to fight back.

Kurd party leaders say some 2,000 Kurdish soldiers stationed high in the mountains of northern Iraq, near the Kurdish city of Halabja, are trading mortar fire with Ansar al-Islam. Both sides have suffered casualties. "We have to treat them seriously, because they are treating us seriously," Mr. Salih says, adding that the US is aware of the Kurdish struggle with Al Qaeda.

• Howard LaFranchi in Washington contributed to this report.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0315/p01s04-wome.html

**Tempus** · 11-01-2004, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceCold

OK, I'll take what you say for what it's worth, but you need to explain why you think Afghanistan is worse off than it was 3 years ago. All the evidence that I've seen, including talking to people that have been there in the past 3 years indicates otherwise. They've had democratic elections which included women getting to vote! Women there are allowed to attend school for the first time in their lives. Granted, in the months after the taliban fell, there was some chaos, but believe me, that country is far, far better off now than it was 3 years ago...

If you choose to believe that Iraq was better with a murderous dictator in power, than go for it. I can see the pessimistic view on Iraq and I agree that it can be argued that Iraq is worse off now than it was 3 years ago. But I believe that things are getting better there. Freedom is costly, but I believe that now that the people of Iraq have tasted it, they will start fighting. We already see that the terrorists there are attacking the people of Iraq more than they attack Americans or our allies.

Once again, someone with no arguments other than their emotions feel that it's OK to label others as "sheep". If that's what you want to call people that support the fight for freedom to all, then Baaa-aaa to you, sir.

I believe in the idea of going to the Middle East and bestowing democracy and all of the goodies. I believe that that's what every soldier who is over believes that they are dying for. However, it's not happening. Afghanistan's government is only surviving due to support from the US. Iraq's government is the same. If we ever leave, they will be replaced by extremists. There are articles all over the net supporting that. If we don't leave, then we will continue to be the target of hatred and violence there.

Neither option is good, and I know that any decision on those lines would be a hard one. What I don't like, though, is that we keep talking about how successful we are there, and that is not established. That is just political speech from the administration to make people believe something that is not true.

I would respect it if they came out and said, "Yes, we can achieve our goals, but it will take many more years and cost thousands more lives and $300 billion dollars." Instead of, "Everything is going good. Give us just a little more money for the war."

IceCold · 11-01-2004, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempus

Afghanistan's government is only surviving due to support from the US. ... If we ever leave, they will be replaced by extremists. There are articles all over the net supporting that. If we don't leave, then we will continue to be the target of hatred and violence there.

Can you point us in the direction of just one credible site that is based on facts and first hand accounts, please?

Quote:

Neither option is good, and I know that any decision on those lines would be a hard one. What I don't like, though, is that we keep talking about how successful we are there, and that is not established. That is just political speech from the administration to make people believe something that is not true.

I would respect it if they came out and said, "Yes, we can achieve our goals, but it will take many more years and cost thousands more lives and $300 billion dollars." Instead of, "Everything is going good. Give us just a little more money for the war."

This is a great point. One of the greatest weaknesses of the current administration, IMO, is that they don't communicate very well with the people. You and I know that the road is long, and that although the optimistic statements aren't lies, they are said optimistically. Assuming that everyone knows what the statements mean would be disingenuous to say the least. That said, I think we're on the right track and that it's NOT just political speech. Look at the people over there. Talk to them. They'll tell you how much their world has changed for the better in the last few years.

America is doing good in the world and I want it to continue.

**luna** · 11-01-2004, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Tempus

Afghanistan's government is only surviving due to support from the US. ... If we ever leave, they will be replaced by extremists. There are articles all over the net supporting that. If we don't leave, then we will continue to be the target of hatred and violence there.

If we leave BEFORE the job is done, sure. Of course it will be taken over by extremists, if we leave early. We would be horrible people to just leave the country before helping it to reestablish itself and assisting in every way possible.

I'm sorry- but what is your point here, exactly?

**CingularDuality** · 11-01-2004, 10:08 PM

OK, back to the original topic: Squid brought up a great point. OBL used words that indicated he was referring to individual states within America, not individual nations. I believe this indicates even more strongly that the speech was intended to specifically influence our election.

Source.

OH YEAH, and the Top 10 Reasons Why OBL Didn't Attack Sweden!

11-01-2004, 10:08 PM	#52 (permalink)
CingularDuality Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, USA Age: 33 Posts: 17,140	Re: Bin Laden Transcript OK, back to the original topic: Squid brought up a great point. OBL used words that indicated he was referring to individual states within America, not individual nations. I believe this indicates even more strongly that the speech was intended to specifically influence our election. Source. OH YEAH, and the Top 10 Reasons Why OBL Didn't Attack Sweden! __________________ Become a supporting member! Buy a Tactical Duck! Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage." TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

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