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Discussion: General Forums / The Sandbox - People who think gay is a choice... - are gay and have chosen to be straight.
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08-21-2010, 12:52 AM #1
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People who think gay is a choice...
are gay and have chosen to be straight.
I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
- "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
- "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
- "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
- If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
- "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
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08-21-2010, 01:33 AM #2
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Re: People who think gay is a choice...
Is this a stab at those you think it's a choice or not?
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08-21-2010, 01:47 AM #3
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Re: People who think gay is a choice...
Its obviously a stab at people who believe that being gay is a choice. Although, it definitely could have been articulated better, I understand where it comes from.
Now, in certain regards, I believe it is, or rather can be. People see the whole gay/straight thing as a two sided issue, but there are a whole bunch of people who dont necessarily fit that measure. The acronym identifier for people with so-called "alternative" sexualities (which is yet another bastion of prejudice) is GLBT: Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender.
So what about the last two on that list? People who identify as bisexual have attractions to both genders although many of them choose to enter into relationships from either their own gender or their opposite. Transgender people are faced with a similar situation, although more due to their physiology. But in these cases, they do have a choice.
However, the point of the OP, I believe, was to stab at people (like those who support proposition 8 and other measures like it) who believe that everyone who is gay made a choice to be so, and as a consequence should re-make that decision in the opposite fashion, as if it's something they have control over. Much like flipping a light switch. It doesnt work that way, not even close. It's not a choice.
|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller
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08-21-2010, 02:04 PM #4
Re: People who think gay is a choice...
I think he's saying that everyone's gay - if you use the "it's their choice to be gay", you'd probably be the sort who would be offended at being called gay.
Originally Posted by Sir-Nerd
Maybe, I don't know.
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08-21-2010, 03:24 PM #5
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Re: People who think gay is a choice...
From a biological standpoint, it makes sense to me that heterosexuality is the "default" setting. Going along those lines, Gringo's statement is invalid.
If homosexuality were a choice, that is. Snoogums brought up an interesting topic with the "subsets" of sexuality, however.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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08-21-2010, 05:48 PM #6
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Re: People who think gay is a choice...
Depends on what biological standpoint you take. Sure, once a human being has matured, it makes sense, biologically, for people to be heterosexual by default. After all, there is no way to achieve procreation without a male and female human being by natural means. Originally Posted by Gill
HOWEVER, I would also like to point out, that from conception, the converse is also true, since we are ALL female for a period of time after zygotic conception. Ergo, the default setting for nature is to have a single sex, and the Y-chromosome, which produces males, is, in fact, a mutation. Thats biological fact.
But in the end, biology means absolutely freaking nothing. If we were protozoa and didnt have the ability to conjure up these whimsical and magical things in our heads called thoughts, then biology would be relevant to the argument. However, seeing as we've gone beyond the point of having a single motivation in life (i.e. survival), we play with things like psychology, physiology, and even into the metaphysical. From my experience, a gay man or lesbian can no more explain why they are homosexual any more than a straight man or woman can explain why they are heterosexual. They do it because they like what they like, the same as everyone else.|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller
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08-21-2010, 06:14 PM #7
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Re: People who think gay is a choice...
It's not even what they like. It's who they are. I didn't decide I liked girls, I just... started liking girls. No real reason why.
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08-23-2010, 06:43 PM #8
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Re: People who think gay is a choice...
If you're speaking by a rationale of "fitness", homo/bisexual activities are common interactions for males of many species. Though they're typically referred to as "displays of dominance". Of course, arguing that definition has long been a sore point of research in biology. Originally Posted by Gill
I always thought it made for an interesting commentary if you note that the alpha (e.g., dominant breeding male) happens to be the "pitcher", then compared that behavior to the stereotypical homophobic "frat boy" archetype in humans, spotting curious parallels.
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08-23-2010, 08:01 PM #9
Re: People who think gay is a choice...
This says lots of animals "choose" to be gay.
Here is a top ten sarting with...... wait for it ........the Guianan Cock
Males of this stunning perching bird delight in homosexuality. Almost 40 percent of the male population engages in a form of homosexual activity and a small percentage don't ever copulate with females.
http://www.livescience.com/animals/g...adline+Feed%29One man gathers
what another man spills
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08-24-2010, 03:32 AM #10
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Re: People who think gay is a choice...
Being gay can be both a choice and not a choice depending on the person.
I had a friend who was gay. He was biologically gay, had always been attracted to males but was afraid to admit it because of his religious father.
He chose to be straight until he was in his 20's. That's right, being straight can be a choice too. He had multiple girlfriends and almost got engaged. Eventually he came out and he just admitted what he always was.
I had another friend, she was straight but had an abusive childhood. She was a lesbian in her late teens and early 20's, then switched back and is now happily married to a man. She chose to be gay for a period because of some stresses.
Now, some people will make the distinction between being attracted to one sex or the other, and I'm stating that people really can be attracted to either gender, or may have an attraction to only one. Those who want gay marriage or equal rights are going to fall into the biological camp for the most part, they really do have an innate attraction to the same sex that cannot be willed away. Don't let those few that choose to be gay sway your opinion on those that didn't choose any more than those who choose to be straight to fit in with their peers sways your opinion on whether some people don't choose to be straight.Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.
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08-24-2010, 04:00 AM #11
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Re: People who think gay is a choice...
I agree with snoogs completely, as per usual on this track. Equality is equality, its a very black and white concept. whether the person on the short end of the stick chose to be a certain way or was born that way is irrelevant in light of the fact that they're still on the short end of the stick.
|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller
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08-24-2010, 09:41 AM #12
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Re: People who think gay is a choice...
Either way, people have the right to their choices (religion) or are born a certain way (race) and some areas of both are covered by anti-discrimination laws so the choice vs born with it argument is a worthless argument.
Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.
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08-24-2010, 05:48 PM #13
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Re: People who think gay is a choice...
damn you evil rep system!You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to snooggums again.|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller
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08-30-2010, 06:47 AM #14
Re: People who think gay is a choice...
I'm hetero but there are women I won't touch. I simply find them just as undesirable as I would a guy. I imagine that gays who "force" themselves into hetero relationships would be like me "choosing" to mate with such a woman, to satisfy some other end besides attraction.
In the TV show FlashForward there's a woman who finds guys gross and mates with one solely because she wants a child. Suppose that the only way to procreate was to mate with another guy. How many of you heteros want children bad enough that you'd go against your nature?Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?
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09-04-2010, 01:41 AM #15
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Re: People who think gay is a choice...
Sorry for the confusion. It seems most of my post was lost. It was a quote I heard from a guy that was gay, tried to be straight for about 10 years then decided he couldn't do it any more.
He had a wife and two kids during that ten years. His wife said she knew he was gay the entire time. They are still very good friends and he has a good relationship with his kids. In fact they still all go on vacations with each other.
His point was that anybody that can really, truly think it is a choice has to be gay choosing to be straight. Like he was. He was straight for ten years because he chose to be. He still wanted to have sex with men but chose not to.
Scratch points out the example he gave.
Suppose you marry for money or some other reason or after you marry your spouse goes to hell. You find your spouse completely repulsive sexually but you remain married and even have sex with your spouse because you choose to. But you are not sexually attracted to them. And you choose not to have sex with those you are actually sexually attracted to.
He thinks there is no way a straight person can ever really feel, in their gut, that somebody could choose to be physically attracted to somebody they where not, in fact, attracted to. He asked me if I could choose to desire sex with a man.
No. I could choose to have sex with a man. But I can't see how I could ever desire sex with a man.
So how could somebody that is straight think that one desires to be gay and can just choose to desire another?
Maybe those that think this have simply repressed all desires and and have gone crazy and end up think nobody can desire anything.
And of course there are many that actually don't think at all, they just come up with really bad logic to justify their stance in life. Or they simply parrot what they have been told.
But the real evangelists, those that preach that gay people can choose to be straight must be attracted to their own sex.
I don't know if I think that is the way it is. I personally don't understand how anybody can think they choose their desires. How can anybody choose what gets them off? I know I can choose to overcome my desires. I don't play video games much at all but that doesn't change the fact I desire them. But how could I learn to desire men?
Of course maybe those that have this faulty thought simply lump all sex together. Maybe they have no desire when it comes to sex so they assume nobody else does either. In their mind anybody that has sex is only doing it by choice, not because of desire.I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
- "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
- "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
- "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
- If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette
- "Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving." -Friedrich Hayek
- "Don't waist your time on me your already the voice inside my head." Blink 182 to my wife
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