Sniffing dogs unconstitutional? - Page 4

**DudeMan** · 11-16-2004, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

What if instead of a dog, the police use a geiger counter or some device that detects chemical or biological weapons. And instead of finding some pot, they found a dirty (or not-so-dirty!) nuclear bomb or some really nice chemicals.

That's fun to think about isn't it? Should the police be able to use such detection devices without a warrant?

absolutly, maybe build large areas to use things like that, if the time came where it was needed. when you drive through it can tell that in that batch of traffic someone is naughty.

its a bit extreme but again would you rather it exploaded than finding it.

**CingularDuality** · 01-24-2005, 12:32 PM

A bit of necromancy...

http://apnews.excite.com/article/200...D87QHGCG0.html

Quote:

The Supreme Court gave police broader search powers Monday during traffic stops, ruling that drug-sniffing dogs can be used to check out motorists even if officers have no reason to suspect they may be carrying narcotics. In a 6-2 decision, the court sided with Illinois police who stopped Roy Caballes in 1998 along Interstate 80 for driving 6 miles over the speed limit. Although Caballes lawfully produced his driver's license, troopers brought over a drug dog after Caballes seemed nervous...."The dog sniff was performed on the exterior of respondent's car while he was lawfully seized for a traffic violation. Any intrusion on respondent's privacy expectations does not rise to the level of a constitutionally cognizable infringement," Stevens wrote....

I am pleased with this decision.

**DudeMan** · 01-24-2005, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

A bit of necromancy...

http://apnews.excite.com/article/200...D87QHGCG0.html

I am pleased with this decision.

so am i,

if you have no drugs on you, then you have nothing to fear... if you do... dont get plled over for being a dope brain and driving irratically.

**leejo** · 01-24-2005, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

A bit of necromancy...

http://apnews.excite.com/article/200...D87QHGCG0.html

I am pleased with this decision.

Ditto. If a cop shows up at my front door with a drug dog, he'd better have a warrant, but public roads are public.

**CingularDuality** · 01-24-2005, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

Ditto. If a cop shows up at my front door with a drug dog, he'd better have a warrant, but public roads are public.

That's an interesting thought... To make the analogy fair, I think that you would've had to have committed a minor crime in your house, first. So, let's say that the police show up at your front door because the neighbors have complained that you're playing your music too loud. The responding officer is a K9 unit and he elects not to leave the dog unattended in his cruiser due to the 100 degree weather. You open the door, the aroma of marijuana wafts out and the dog starts going crazy, indicating that he's detected drugs. You've already opened the front door and "let the officer in". At this point, the officer has the right to secure the house for his safety. The dog is barking and pawing like crazy at a small chest of drawers in the living room (right next to the front door).

Was a search warrant required? Or were the drugs detected without initiating a "search"?

**leejo** · 01-24-2005, 01:22 PM

Well only a totally stoned fool would open the door such that smoke billowed out. SOP in my house is to walk around from the kitchen door whenever a cop is knocking on the front door in response to a neighbor's complaint. Stupid neighbors are so square.

**CingularDuality** · 01-24-2005, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

Well only a totally stoned fool would open the door such that smoke billowed out. SOP in my house is to walk around from the kitchen door whenever a cop is knocking on the front door in response to a neighbor's complaint. Stupid neighbors are so square.

LOL !

**TheFeniX** · 01-24-2005, 03:12 PM

I think there was a case like that in Texas a few years back when a college student in an apartment cracked open the door to respond to a police officer knocking. The officer smelled pot and forced his way in and arrested 2-4 people. The judge threw it out due to lack of evidence because the officer did not actually see the drugs until he pushed past the guy who answered the door. This was some years back though, so the laws may have changed. But it revolved around the issue that just being able to smell drugs in someone's home did not constitute a search unless there are other extenuating circumstances.

Further, I would find it bad form for an officer to bring his dog to my front door without warrant. I'd make him leave the dog in the car before I even considered opening the door. Yes, I know the police dogs are well trained, but they can't make decisions like a reasoning human can. And I've seen pissed off German Shepards in action.

The real solution is to crack the door open, then step outside with the officer rather than speaking behind the door. Just make sure you stay on your property at all times. Cops can pull some stupid crap if they want to.

Remember though, Texas law differs a lot from other states. I can (and have) told officers to get lost when they've harassed me on my property. There's about a damn thing they can do unless they decide to flat-out lie (make sure you've got plenty of witnesses).

**DudeMan** · 01-24-2005, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Remember though, Texas law differs a lot from other states. I can (and have) told officers to get lost when they've harassed me on my property. There's about a damn thing they can do unless they decide to flat-out lie (make sure you've got plenty of witnesses).

thats not a very rosie picture you paint of the police service local to you.

using canabis is literally not ilegle ove here any more... it is and it isnt... if you are caught usng they just take it off you and give you a warning... but thats about it these days. ....fortunatly.

**=DdogG=** · 01-24-2005, 04:37 PM

stepping outside is not a good idea either.....

not that I have had run ins with the law, but there was an instance of a maniac cop who was harrassing us b/c we were helping his girlfreind move out (and away from his abuse)

he sent cops to our house, and they asked to come in... after I refused, they asked me to step out.... again refusing, they had to ask me if I knew where the woman and the child were..... I said no and they had to leave.... had I let them in they could have searched (they weren't there) or had I stepped out, they could have arrested me for kidnapping or aiding and abedding.... taken me to the station and questioned me... while it obviously could not stick, they could have detained me legally for up to 24 hrs..... and he was a big enough jerk to do it too.
if you have nothing to hide, stay in your home and do not let the police in. again, I have no reason to worry, but if invited in, the need for search warrant is negated, and with the patriot act, it is more prone that the police will use this power. ppl can call the cops for any bogus thing and they can/will investigate.
I don't mean to sound paranoid, and I do not want to sound disrespectful either, but cops can be as dangerous as the rest of society. the badge just means they have never been caught....... (or never did anything, but you don't know either way.)

**DudeMan** · 01-24-2005, 04:48 PM

Quote:

ppl can call the cops for any bogus thing and they can/will investigate.

while this is being used in a negative way i think it is actually posstive.... and i would change the words from can/will toy "have to"

at least thats the case over here.

**CingularDuality** · 01-24-2005, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =DdogG=

stepping outside is not a good idea either.....

not that I have had run ins with the law, but there was an instance of a maniac cop who was harrassing us b/c we were helping his girlfreind move out (and away from his abuse)

he sent cops to our house, and they asked to come in... after I refused, they asked me to step out.... again refusing, they had to ask me if I knew where the woman and the child were..... I said no and they had to leave.... had I let them in they could have searched (they weren't there) or had I stepped out, they could have arrested me for kidnapping or aiding and abedding.... taken me to the station and questioned me... while it obviously could not stick, they could have detained me legally for up to 24 hrs..... and he was a big enough jerk to do it too.
if you have nothing to hide, stay in your home and do not let the police in. again, I have no reason to worry, but if invited in, the need for search warrant is negated, and with the patriot act, it is more prone that the police will use this power. ppl can call the cops for any bogus thing and they can/will investigate.
I don't mean to sound paranoid, and I do not want to sound disrespectful either, but cops can be as dangerous as the rest of society. the badge just means they have never been caught....... (or never did anything, but you don't know either way.)

Oh, my.... Your post is filled with so much BS, I don't even know where to start...

If the police have probable cause or a warrant to arrest you, it doesn't matter where you are, they can put the handcuffs on you. Being inside or outside of your house doesn't matter in the least...

The Patriot Act doesn't have any effect on a police officer's authority to search your house. Jeebus, where are you getting this stuff? A police officer MUST have a search warrant in order to "search" your house. A "search" isn't conducted on anything in "plain view" even after securing the house for officer safety reasons (opening anything large enough to hide a human).

You and the cop's ex should have filed formal complaints with the police department. By themselves, the complaints won't do anything, but they'll establish a pattern. If this cop was such a jerk to you, he's likely to be a jerk to everyone. Even though it might not help you, I would file a complaint. Here's something to consider: once you're convicted of domestic violence, you can no longer carry a gun. That may have been why this guy went over the top. He was afraid that his job was going to get flushed down the tubes because he'd abused his girlfriend and she's no longer going to take it. I don't know how long ago this was, but she might want to give the DA a call...

**CingularDuality** · 01-24-2005, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

while this is being used in a negative way i think it is actually posstive.... and i would change the words from can/will toy "have to"

at least thats the case over here.

Yeah, I was going to say he's lucky... In Dallas, well, let's just say their response time isn't the greatest in the world...

**TheFeniX** · 01-24-2005, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

thats not a very rosie picture you paint of the police service local to you.

Cops are people just like you and me. They can be paragons of virtue, or downright scumbags. I don't leave the later to chance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by =DdogG=

stepping outside is not a good idea either.....

In Texas, I can mow my lawn with a loaded six-shooter on my hip and it's legal. You are granted the same rights anywhere on your property. Obviously, it's easier for a cop to see you doing something illegal, but it's still your domain.

Your example was more a sign of a dirty cop than actual law. If the cops want to play dirty, you're screwed no matter what you do.

**=DdogG=** · 01-24-2005, 05:01 PM

it was years ago, and an attorney told me to do what I did....

without a warrant, the police cannot enter a residence (probable cause not withstanding, and in this case, that would be seeing the described child) and the police cannot enter your home to arrest you without a warrant.... thus, stepping outside removes that need.

your home is off limits without a warrant. period. I'm not sure where the BS is, but around here, unlawful search and seizure means they cant come in unless a judge says they can.

01-24-2005, 01:22 PM	#51 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,524	Re: Sniffing dogs unconstitutional? Well only a totally stoned fool would open the door such that smoke billowed out. SOP in my house is to walk around from the kitchen door whenever a cop is knocking on the front door in response to a neighbor's complaint. Stupid neighbors are so square.

01-24-2005, 03:12 PM	#53 (permalink)
TheFeniX Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 26 Posts: 4,446	Re: Sniffing dogs unconstitutional? I think there was a case like that in Texas a few years back when a college student in an apartment cracked open the door to respond to a police officer knocking. The officer smelled pot and forced his way in and arrested 2-4 people. The judge threw it out due to lack of evidence because the officer did not actually see the drugs until he pushed past the guy who answered the door. This was some years back though, so the laws may have changed. But it revolved around the issue that just being able to smell drugs in someone's home did not constitute a search unless there are other extenuating circumstances. Further, I would find it bad form for an officer to bring his dog to my front door without warrant. I'd make him leave the dog in the car before I even considered opening the door. Yes, I know the police dogs are well trained, but they can't make decisions like a reasoning human can. And I've seen pissed off German Shepards in action. The real solution is to crack the door open, then step outside with the officer rather than speaking behind the door. Just make sure you stay on your property at all times. Cops can pull some stupid crap if they want to. Remember though, Texas law differs a lot from other states. I can (and have) told officers to get lost when they've harassed me on my property. There's about a damn thing they can do unless they decide to flat-out lie (make sure you've got plenty of witnesses). __________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - TheFeniX's Steam Profile TG's Team Fortress 2 Steam Group

01-24-2005, 04:37 PM	#55 (permalink)
=DdogG= Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ennis, TX Age: 31 Posts: 1,612	Re: Sniffing dogs unconstitutional? stepping outside is not a good idea either..... not that I have had run ins with the law, but there was an instance of a maniac cop who was harrassing us b/c we were helping his girlfreind move out (and away from his abuse) he sent cops to our house, and they asked to come in... after I refused, they asked me to step out.... again refusing, they had to ask me if I knew where the woman and the child were..... I said no and they had to leave.... had I let them in they could have searched (they weren't there) or had I stepped out, they could have arrested me for kidnapping or aiding and abedding.... taken me to the station and questioned me... while it obviously could not stick, they could have detained me legally for up to 24 hrs..... and he was a big enough jerk to do it too. if you have nothing to hide, stay in your home and do not let the police in. again, I have no reason to worry, but if invited in, the need for search warrant is negated, and with the patriot act, it is more prone that the police will use this power. ppl can call the cops for any bogus thing and they can/will investigate. I don't mean to sound paranoid, and I do not want to sound disrespectful either, but cops can be as dangerous as the rest of society. the badge just means they have never been caught....... (or never did anything, but you don't know either way.) __________________ Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -Albert Einstein The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. -Harlan Ellison If all else fails: "rm -rf /"

01-24-2005, 05:01 PM	#60 (permalink)
=DdogG= Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ennis, TX Age: 31 Posts: 1,612	Re: Sniffing dogs unconstitutional? it was years ago, and an attorney told me to do what I did.... without a warrant, the police cannot enter a residence (probable cause not withstanding, and in this case, that would be seeing the described child) and the police cannot enter your home to arrest you without a warrant.... thus, stepping outside removes that need. your home is off limits without a warrant. period. I'm not sure where the BS is, but around here, unlawful search and seizure means they cant come in unless a judge says they can. __________________ Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -Albert Einstein The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. -Harlan Ellison If all else fails: "rm -rf /"

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