GhostintheShell

CIA coups in Iraq in 1963 & 1968 helped put Saddam Hussein in power.

Famous Rumsfeld/Saddam handshake picture, Dec 1983.

US State Dept sold 45 Bell helicopters to Iraq, early 1984.

Mustard gas laced with a nerve agent dropped from those helicopters against Iranian soldiers, March 1984.

1988 Saddam gasses the Kurds in Halabjah using bombers.

Vulcan

it's a dirty and ugly seen in politics and it sucks that it has gone to the point where we can't even tell the truth from the lies. I can't even begin to guess who's telling truth and who's lying. truly sad indeed.

Apophis

In spite of us calling off the search for WMD's in Iraq, I can't help but thinking of the following... It was no secret that we were going to invade Iraq. We had troops massing on the borders for close to 6 months before we went in. It was also clear to Iraq, and more importantly Saddam Hussein, that we were looking for WMDs. What could YOU hide over the course of 6 months? I'm not sure if ALL of the intelligence was completely flawed or not. I still believe that there will be WMDs found, maybe not this year or next, but somewhere in the future. My fear is that years down the road some poor Iraqi citizen is going to be digging a hole for a new foundation somewhere and crack open a few tons of sarin or something else equally as evil.

I think the actions of Bush in Iraq won't be able to be fairly judged for years to come.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

Pokerface

Given six months, I could hide a lot.
Given two years, 150,000 people, and (theoretically) the best intelligence you can put together over the course of that time, I'd bet you'd be able to find it.

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leejo

So what? We just had an election and the guy's going to be president for the next four years. A majority of voters don't see this the way you do. Please drop it. We've all heard the arguments before. This doesn't seem like something that needs explaining, it seems like a matter about which you feel the need to vent.

Pokerface

Maybe I do feel the need to vent. But it's truly because I don't understand.

If I tell you that the guy at the next table over at Denny's is looking to kick your rear up one side of the restaurant and down the other, and then slice your from ear to ear with a bowie knife, and you go pre-emptively kick his rear and kill him. Later we find that he held no ill will against you, but he beats his kids and was generally a horrible man.

Would you apologize for whipping the snot out of the man? At the very least, for not having a good reason BEFOREHAND to kick his butt? Would you be held accountable for the man's death?

__________________

NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
<anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
<LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash
Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

Apophis

Well....

Over the past few years did this guy take shots at your home and car every time you drove near his house? (No fly zone: American pilots were shot at DAILY) Did he pay suicide bombers of neighboring villages $25,000 for bombing the houses of your friends and family? If all of the above was true, would you believe it if someone else told you the guy had nothing against you? I know I wouldn't...

You say you truly don't understand, but it still seems to me like you've already made up your mind and don't really WANT to understand.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

TheFeniX

Did you miss the whole comment I made about Saddam not only doing everything possible to hinder UN inspectors but even having his military fire live rounds at them, and the UN doing nothing about it?

Horrible analogy. Saddam is still alive and we posses actual had evidence of his mass murdering deeds aimed at his own country-men and women as well as other countries (US included).

It would be more akin to a corrupt political figure using strong-arm tactics to stay in power (Any comments made about Bush in this context will be laughed at) including murder and outright deception. With this evidence in hand that same figure would go unpunished by the police due to inept leadership and a populace to spineless to finish the job.

My only problem with Iraq is that Bush Sr. didn't finish the job when he could have because of the crying liberals who would instead see Iraqi rebels get slaughtered after Coalition forces pulled their support (including the bone-head general who let Saddam keep his choppers to use as "police enforcement"). Man, I love euphemisms.

But Saddam is ok because allowing chopper crews to fire on running men, women, and children and leaving them to rot in the sun is his right as a misunderstood despot.

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USN_Squid

Tenet was a mistake of a holdover from the previous administration. Did you notice that he "resigned" less than a week before the 911 commission report came out. He was a failure and the medal was a just a political nicety to help him find another job.

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leejo

My wife felt the same way. My thinking is that we all know about his mistakes, but we will never know about the things Tenet did right. Bush kept him around a long time for some reason.

CingularDuality

Right... Because US intelligence was so different from the rest of the world's intel? Every single intelligence agency from the members of the UN security council agreed that Iraq had WMDs at the time. Again, intelligence is never exact.

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NewsWrthy

I believe the Anchorman in question had no credibility due to suporting or making false statements, and having made biased remarks in the past. The world(not just the US) is a better place with Blowchow and Blather off the air.

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