Pokerface

CBS goofs on a memo about the President's National Guard service record. Four people are fired, and a longstanding anchorman retires with his credibility in question.

The White House goofs on Iraq possessing weapons of mass destruction. The head of intelligence who helped that goof, the general who took Iraq but failed to stabilize it, and the man whose job was to create stability (but didn't know how to speak Arabic) get the highest civilian honor our nation can bestow. The president seems unapologetic, as if the ends (what they are) are separate from the popular inciting reasons for them.

I need that one explained. Slowly.

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Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
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_Ender_

umm...

....


....


there happy?

leejo

A man robs a liquor store and goes to prison but George Bush gets reelected.

A goose in Cincinatti lays an egg and is beaten for a crack in the shell, but George Tenet gets an award.

A dog barks in the night and when its owner finds no-one at the door the dog is smacked on the nose with rolled-up newspaper, but Tommy Franks is honored.

A taxi driver, fluent in arabic, is stiffed on a tip but Paul Bremer is hired to administer Iraq and receives the nation's top honor for placing himself at great risk to serve.

Oh mysteries of life!

Pokerface

Well, the general notion I'm trying to push is "A relatively trivial lie occurs, and people lose their jobs and credibility. A relatively serious lie occurs -- one over which people have died -- and people get honored."

Tenet should be getting awards for preventing 9/11's, not for responding to them.
Bremer -- I can put myself at great risk and walk out leaving the place about the same as I left it too, but I wouldn't expect a medal for it.
Franks is the only one who has a glimmer of hope in my eyes. His time in Afghanistan and Iraq functioned well for the most part, even though we came up short on OBL and WMDs. I can't rest the blame wholly on his shoulders for Iraq's instability.

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NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
<anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
<LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash
Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

leejo

I think I understand the notion you're trying to push. From now until the sun stops shining, everytime a liberal person or organization catches hell for something someone will compare their actions to those of some conservative who, in their mind, has done something worse. So it has been and so it shall be.

Interesting read on the CBS thing: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Jan13.html

Tempus

Good point Pokerface, but asking that question here is like asking a question about the merits of affirmative action on a NASCAR forum.

leejo

or on a NAACP forum.

drew_952

I think it's a great question. I would go on a slam-fest of the Dubya, but that wouldn't help things.

I think another great question is: What do we do now? How do we get the F out of Iraq?

Comments? Suggestions?

Bring 'em on.

drew_952

IceCold

It's quite simple. The people at CBS intentionally sold a fake memo to the people in order to break a hot story and possibly in order to influence the election.

The people in our government were provided with intelligence (an imprecise area of science, to say the least) that turned out to be faulty. There was no intent to deceive the public. The best information available was used to make a decision. The best information available turned out to be inaccurate.

If you can't see the fundamental difference between these two situations, then I worry for your future...

Tempus

Oh the irony......

drew_952

Then don't give the person in charge of intelligence a freakin' metal! Tenet resigned in the thick of it all, and he gets a "Medal of Freedom" award? Add this one to the list.

drew_952

Apophis

In my opinion, the situation with CBS and the alleged "service record" documents were produced with the express purpose of assassinating the character of the President. I feel they were produced to influence the outcome of the election by a politically motivated group of individuals responsible for presenting the news to the US population.

In my opinion, the situation with Iraq and our current administration is largely opinion. I feel it is the opinion of some that we've failed in Iraq. I feel it is the opinion of some that there never WERE WMD's in Iraq and we made the whole thing up. If you are expecting an apology from the President based on your opinion of the events as they have happened, you're going to be sorely disappointed. Not all people have the same opinion in regards to our operations in Iraq.

Many people want to believe Bush was wrong for invading Iraq. If your ultimate goal is to make sure you have the evidence required to continue disliking Bush, there is nothing in the world to stop you. If your goal is to seek the truth about what happened without having a side agenda of making sure it results in hating Bush or supporting Bush, that's a different story alltogether.

I've stayed out of most of these Bush/Iraq/Election threads simply because most people have already made up their minds about what they WANT to be the truth and will solely seek out evidence that supports what they WANT to believe.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

Pokerface

It's not just the opinion of some anymore, though, Apo, it's OUR OWN opinion, having gone and searched for them for almost two years now and subsequently calling off the search this past week.

People have died because of the looming threat to America that Iraq posed, the crux of which was the WMD argument. 1375 soldiers later, the justification is dropped. What does this make Iraqi Freedom? War for what sake?

Man, I wanted to like Bush, really I did. If he had brought me the head of OBL, or yanked some canisters of VX out of Saddam's hidey-hole, I'd be behind the man and his administration until the end.

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NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
<anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
<LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash
Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

TheFeniX

Considering the lack of attention I've given the whole search for WMD in the past year, this may not mean as much to some people, but I've always looked at it this way:

The UN gave Saddam an ultimatum 10+ years ago to disarm. After a decade of infirm leadership and lack of pressure from the UN (ever watch the whole spectacle the UN inspectors went through in Iraq? Even being shot at by Iraqi Military), how could you expect them to find any?

Imagine you had an illegal cache of weapons in your home and the police said you had to give them up, but you succeeded in keeping them at bay for years. How long would it take you to destroy that evidence? I'd like to think even a year would be more than enough time, much less 10. I mean, those missiles fired at Kuwait weren't filled with Helium.

Then again, I could be wrong.

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CingularDuality

Umm, no. Despite the media bias that keeps wording the news to imply that there NEVER were WMDs in Iraq, we know better. For christ's sake, he gassed thousands and thousands of Kurds!!!! The whole world knows that he had them at one time. We thought he still had them. We invaded and we couldn't find them.

Not being able to find them is a bit different from "they were never there".

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