Rabbi probed for circumcised infants' herpes - Page 2

**leejo** · 02-14-2005, 11:15 AM

I dunno. Lot's of protestant boys have circumcisions. Lots of little baby girls have their ears pierced. Who cares?

**_Ender_** · 02-14-2005, 11:29 AM

My question is.. how did this guy get herpes to begin with? Are herpes a common problem among rabbi's?

As far as I know, the whole circumcision thing was a jewish practice that modern day Christianity adpoted.. for whatever reason.. my guess is, if you have hangy skin on your penis, then you're evil and will go to hell..

hangy skin on your penis makes baby jesus cry..

**leejo** · 02-14-2005, 11:35 AM

Once again someone thinks it's cute to sneer at Christians. Rise above dude: you can make your point without crapping on an important part of many TGers lives.

My guess is that the rabbi performed the briss on a baby who's mother had herpes and therefore contracted it on the passage through the chute. Maybe he got it from a hooker. Who knows.

**_Ender_** · 02-14-2005, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

Maybe he got it from a hooker. Who knows.

Still better then little boys.

I'm kinda speachless about this story. I want to know why he would do this. I understand its a practice or whatever, but come on get out of the 1st centary.

I also think this rabbi should be brought up on charges.

**CingularDuality** · 02-14-2005, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Ender_

My question is.. how did this guy get herpes to begin with? Are herpes a common problem among rabbi's?

My bet is that he had a cold sore. If you didn't know, a cold sore is herpes and if you engage in oral sex (or perform a bris), you can allow it to be transferred as genital herpes.

**_Ender_** · 02-14-2005, 12:51 PM

Yeah thats a point. I didnt think of that. Still though, thats pretty messed up.

**CingularDuality** · 02-14-2005, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

I don't have a problem with circumcision and disagree with comparing it to "female circumcision". To my knowledge there are no long-term health or sexual consequences to the former and lots of problems with the latter. The vast majority of circumcisions are performed in hostpitals by (insured and liable) doctors.

How is this a serious problem? What are the consequences other than some "ew" factor some folks seem to have? There may be no medical purpose, like ear piercings, tattoos, tans, etc., etc. But it's part of our culture and if there's no harm there's no foul. Get one, don't get one, whatever.

Now...this herpes guy using his mouth. I agree that should stop.

OK, so, because this mutilation is performed by a doctor, it's OK? BS. If you click on the link, you'll see that death due to complications with the circumcision aren't uncommon. If ear-piercing led to death as often, we'd be screaming for legislation to stop it. Cosmetic mutilations just shouldn't be done on newborns...

Could you please explain the difference between male and female genital mutilation? Cutting off sensitive parts of the sex organ is cutting off sensitive spots of the sex organ. Look up the word keratinization and tell me that there are no long term health consequences. Nevermind, here's a referenced article on the negative effects.

Aww, hell.... Just go here and educate yourself, man: http://www.cirp.org/library/ Your ignorance is showing and I'm pissed that I used to be just like you on this issue. I don't have to tell you that the site is factual but biased towards their point of view. Read it with that in mind and just absorb the facts. If you're human and are either logical or have a heart, it will be enough to change your mind.

blackjackel · 02-14-2005, 01:35 PM

I must say, i'm pretty surprised to see so many people against circumcision....

but i also gotta say that i see where you guys are comeing from....

Is it more common for someone to be circumcised or less common?

In reply to cingulair... wouldnt cutting off a sensitive part of the penis make you last longer in bed? Whats wrong with that? haha...

But seriously, why must ever serious post need to turn into a flame war here =( It's just peoples opinions.... no need to get all passionate about them.

For example, i am curcumcised and i am completely happy with it. I feel fine, and i doubt much would have changed if i hadnt been circumcised.... Besides, there are just as many health reports stating the circumcision is benificial as there are saying its not.

I dont remember exactly where i read it, but i read that an uncircumcised penis tends to hold dirt, bacteria, mold, or other harmfull entities inside the skin flab, and that unless that flab was cleaned regularly it might pose a serious health risk. An Uncircumcised penis wouldnt have this problem.

anyways, thats just my opinion. Dont flame it plz.

**_Ender_** · 02-14-2005, 01:43 PM

I never thought the words "skin flab" would be used on TG..

**CingularDuality** · 02-14-2005, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackjackel

Besides, there are just as many health reports stating the circumcision is benificial as there are saying its not.

Could you show me one? Just one...

Quote:

I dont remember exactly where i read it, but i read that an uncircumcised penis tends to hold dirt, bacteria, mold, or other harmfull entities inside the skin flab, and that unless that flab was cleaned regularly it might pose a serious health risk. An Uncircumcised penis wouldnt have this problem.

Completely untrue. Uneducated people used to think that smegma was "dirty", when in fact it protects the glans...

Quote:

anyways, thats just my opinion. Dont flame it plz.

No flaming here. Leejo got a little bit touchy over the religious aspect of this argument (actually about the manner in which someone tackled that aspect, I believe...), and that's to be understood. I won't argue with that part of this discussion as the original post in this thread has proven the absurdity of using religion to defend a practice...

Oh yeah:

Quote:

In reply to cingulair... wouldnt cutting off a sensitive part of the penis make you last longer in bed? Whats wrong with that? haha...

If you need to have a mutilated penis to perform well in bed, fine. Just don't mutilate the sex organs of infants. Let people make that decision when they're adults.

blackjackel · 02-14-2005, 02:14 PM

Okay, just for fun, i went out and looked for sites and miscelaneous information on the benifits of circumcision.

http://www.circinfo.net/

http://billgothard.com/bill/topics/circumcision/

http://nd.essortment.com/circumcisionunc_rmdj.htm

heres one that favors neither: http://depts.washington.edu/~uweek/a...article19.html

The point being is that theres just as much information for as there is against circumcision, and its just one of those subjects that nobody can really argue either way....

**leejo** · 02-14-2005, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

OK, so, because this mutilation is performed by a doctor, it's OK? BS. If you click on the link, you'll see that death due to complications with the circumcision aren't uncommon. If ear-piercing led to death as often, we'd be screaming for legislation to stop it. Cosmetic mutilations just shouldn't be done on newborns...

Could you please explain the difference between male and female genital mutilation? Cutting off sensitive parts of the sex organ is cutting off sensitive spots of the sex organ. Look up the word keratinization and tell me that there are no long term health consequences. Nevermind, here's a referenced article on the negative effects.

Aww, hell.... Just go here and educate yourself, man: http://www.cirp.org/library/ Your ignorance is showing and I'm pissed that I used to be just like you on this issue. I don't have to tell you that the site is factual but biased towards their point of view. Read it with that in mind and just absorb the facts. If you're human and are either logical or have a heart, it will be enough to change your mind.

I actually have read up on this issue a long time ago. I also noted recently that, like many topics, when you google this subject you get several pages of hits with clear political agenda until you get to a hit or two from an unbiased scientific source. The CIRP site you quote passes itself off as unbiased but it's a facade that melts away when reading through its pages. Even your quoted page "DEATH BY CICRUMCISION!!!" chooses to launch into an alarming topic but is coy about discussing RATES of death (1 in 10? 1 in 10,000? 1 in 10,000,000? Who knows, but it's important information to consider when determining a proceedure's risk. Yet, for some reason, the CIRP chooses to shy away from such hard data in a discussion about DEATH BY CIRCUMCISION!!!!).

According to wikopedia's entry on circumcision, "Research has found that circumcision does not lead to increased keratinization [130] (http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/conte.../320/7249/1592) or reduction in sensitivity of the glans [131] (http://www.circs.org/library/masters/)[132] (http://www.circs.org/library/bleustein/)."

Contrarywise, a study in the 80's found that the rate of penis cancer in uncircumcised males was more than 3 times higher than for males neonatally circumcised.

PENIS CANCER!!!!

(Cing, consider that your one study showing health benefits of circumcision: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract)

There have been studies that show some long-term sexual disfunction associated with circumcision but a recent study cast some of those conclusions into doubt. Again, wikopedia, whom I've never heard argue for or against circumcision and so consider unbiased in this case, discusses the issue so you may want to read up there.

I'm not ignorant, but we do have different opinions about this. In any case, I'm not at all interested in continuing this pointless debate. Simmer down folks: Neither I nor the good rabbi plan to come to your house and do anything hasty or dick-related.

blackjackel · 02-14-2005, 02:23 PM

Just for fun, i googled the following phrases, i cut and pasted the search results from google:

about 4,080 for "benefits of circumcision". (0.17 seconds)

about 1,180 for "risks of circumcision". (0.36 seconds)

about 348,000 for circumcision good. (0.17 seconds)

about 177,000 for circumcision bad. (0.14 seconds)

about 176,000 for circumcision healthy. (0.34 seconds)

about 9,980 for circumcision unhealthy. (0.16 seconds)

I know this proves absolutely nothing, just thought it would be a fun little thing to try out.

**CingularDuality** · 02-14-2005, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

Even your quoted page "DEATH BY CICRUMCISION!!!" chooses to launch into an alarming topic but is coy about discussing RATES of death (1 in 10? 1 in 10,000? 1 in 10,000,000? Who knows, but it's important information to consider when determining a proceedure's risk. Yet, for some reason, the CIRP chooses to shy away from such hard data in a discussion about DEATH BY CIRCUMCISION!!!!).

Does the rate of death matter for a cosmetic surgery being performed without consent? C'mon...

Quote:

(Cing, consider that your one study showing health benefits of circumcision: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract)

Correlation does not equal causation. Reread that study...

Again, I'll ask, what's the difference between male and female genital mutilation?

Quote:

I'm not ignorant, but we do have different opinions about this. In any case, I'm not at all interested in continuing this pointless debate.

So, you'd be fine if I proposed cutting of the left pinky finger of all the foster kids that I'm raising?

This is about the social acceptance of performing non-medically necessary cosmetic surgery on an unconsenting persons genitalia! How can you be so blase about this?

**CingularDuality** · 02-14-2005, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

Again, wikopedia, whom I've never heard argue for or against circumcision and so consider unbiased in this case, discusses the issue so you may want to read up there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

This page is protected from editing until disputes have been resolved on the discussion page.
Protection is not an endorsement of the current version. To see other versions, use the page history.

The neutrality of this article is disputed.
Please help by reporting disputed passages and terms on the talk page.

I usually like Wikipedia, too, but for a controversial topic like this, where religious dogma faces scientific facts, it's not the best place in the world to get reliable information...

02-14-2005, 11:15 AM	#16 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: Rabbi probed for circumcised infants' herpes I dunno. Lot's of protestant boys have circumcisions. Lots of little baby girls have their ears pierced. Who cares?

02-14-2005, 11:29 AM	#17 (permalink)
_Ender_ Join Date: May 2003 Location: I am lost, if you know where I am then please feel free to tell me. Age: 29 Posts: 2,048	Re: Rabbi probed for circumcised infants' herpes My question is.. how did this guy get herpes to begin with? Are herpes a common problem among rabbi's? As far as I know, the whole circumcision thing was a jewish practice that modern day Christianity adpoted.. for whatever reason.. my guess is, if you have hangy skin on your penis, then you're evil and will go to hell.. hangy skin on your penis makes baby jesus cry..

02-14-2005, 11:35 AM	#18 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: Rabbi probed for circumcised infants' herpes Once again someone thinks it's cute to sneer at Christians. Rise above dude: you can make your point without crapping on an important part of many TGers lives. My guess is that the rabbi performed the briss on a baby who's mother had herpes and therefore contracted it on the passage through the chute. Maybe he got it from a hooker. Who knows.

02-14-2005, 12:51 PM	#21 (permalink)
_Ender_ Join Date: May 2003 Location: I am lost, if you know where I am then please feel free to tell me. Age: 29 Posts: 2,048	Re: Rabbi probed for circumcised infants' herpes Yeah thats a point. I didnt think of that. Still though, thats pretty messed up.

02-14-2005, 01:35 PM	#23 (permalink)
blackjackel Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 120	Re: Rabbi probed for circumcised infants' herpes I must say, i'm pretty surprised to see so many people against circumcision.... but i also gotta say that i see where you guys are comeing from.... Is it more common for someone to be circumcised or less common? In reply to cingulair... wouldnt cutting off a sensitive part of the penis make you last longer in bed? Whats wrong with that? haha... But seriously, why must ever serious post need to turn into a flame war here =( It's just peoples opinions.... no need to get all passionate about them. For example, i am curcumcised and i am completely happy with it. I feel fine, and i doubt much would have changed if i hadnt been circumcised.... Besides, there are just as many health reports stating the circumcision is benificial as there are saying its not. I dont remember exactly where i read it, but i read that an uncircumcised penis tends to hold dirt, bacteria, mold, or other harmfull entities inside the skin flab, and that unless that flab was cleaned regularly it might pose a serious health risk. An Uncircumcised penis wouldnt have this problem. anyways, thats just my opinion. Dont flame it plz. __________________ Prejudice sucks: Do not judge me by my past, for I have changed. DarkHunter == Blackjackel.

02-14-2005, 01:43 PM	#24 (permalink)
_Ender_ Join Date: May 2003 Location: I am lost, if you know where I am then please feel free to tell me. Age: 29 Posts: 2,048	Re: Rabbi probed for circumcised infants' herpes I never thought the words "skin flab" would be used on TG..

02-14-2005, 02:14 PM	#26 (permalink)
blackjackel Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 120	Re: Rabbi probed for circumcised infants' herpes Okay, just for fun, i went out and looked for sites and miscelaneous information on the benifits of circumcision. http://www.circinfo.net/ http://billgothard.com/bill/topics/circumcision/ http://nd.essortment.com/circumcisionunc_rmdj.htm heres one that favors neither: http://depts.washington.edu/~uweek/a...article19.html The point being is that theres just as much information for as there is against circumcision, and its just one of those subjects that nobody can really argue either way.... __________________ Prejudice sucks: Do not judge me by my past, for I have changed. DarkHunter == Blackjackel.

02-14-2005, 02:23 PM	#28 (permalink)
blackjackel Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 120	Re: Rabbi probed for circumcised infants' herpes Just for fun, i googled the following phrases, i cut and pasted the search results from google: about 4,080 for "benefits of circumcision". (0.17 seconds) about 1,180 for "risks of circumcision". (0.36 seconds) about 348,000 for circumcision good. (0.17 seconds) about 177,000 for circumcision bad. (0.14 seconds) about 176,000 for circumcision healthy. (0.34 seconds) about 9,980 for circumcision unhealthy. (0.16 seconds) I know this proves absolutely nothing, just thought it would be a fun little thing to try out. __________________ Prejudice sucks: Do not judge me by my past, for I have changed. DarkHunter == Blackjackel.

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