If someone cuts in front of you in line for pizza, watch out!

**CingularDuality** · 02-23-2005, 02:54 AM

Video: http://www.nbc5i.com/news/4221455/detail.html

Quote:

Pizza Parlor Beating Caught On Tape
Attack Happened Last July

AKRON, Ohio -- Police have released a security videotape showing the brutal beating of a customer at an Ohio pizza parlor last July.

The video shows Mark Jones, who is more than 6 feet tall and weighs almost 300 pounds, repeatedly striking Joseph Scarpino in the face and body as customers watched.

Jones was found guilty of felonious assault last week and was sentenced to four years in prison.

Scarpino suffered a broken eye socket and nose, a concussion and a chipped tooth in the beating.

The incident began when Jones' girlfriend cut in line in front of Scarpino.

Scarpino was on his cell phone and told his fiance it might take a little longer to get their pizza.

Jones' girlfriend got mad at the comment and created such a commotion that the manager tried to kick her out.

That's when Jones stepped in and hit Scarpino at least seven times.

Jones' girlfriend, Prestia Sims, is scheduled to go on trial next month for her alleged role in the incident.

I have no idea what this Scarpino guy (victim) was thinking. He didn't put up a fight at all... Either we missed something earlier in the video, the first punch knocked him into a state of shock, or he is, well, a wuss.

I can't believe all of the bystanders just watching, either. Maybe Scarpino said some things that really earned an asswhupping?

**TheFeniX** · 02-23-2005, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

I have no idea what this Scarpino guy (victim) was thinking. He didn't put up a fight at all... Either we missed something earlier in the video, the first punch knocked him into a state of shock, or he is, well, a wuss.

The first punch brought moved his head over 2 feet in under a second. He probably didnt even know what hit him.

Quote:

I can't believe all of the bystanders just watching, either. Maybe Scarpino said some things that really earned an asswhupping?

Doesn't matter, he obviously wasn't fighting back and the guy outweight him by over 200 pounds. He could easily have killed the guy.

I need to read up and see what my options would be in a situation like that (me watching this happen and wanting to take action that is).

**Pokerface** · 02-23-2005, 02:46 PM

I'd mediate to the best of my ability, but if a guy who checks in a over six feet and over 300 pounds wants to start throwing punches, all me getting in the way will do is add another assault and battery charge, cause my weaking butt ain't gonna do much except soak a few more blows.

Unless it's family or friend, my Good-Samaritan-o-meter doesn't typically go beyond the range of my Common-Sense-o-meter.

**leejo** · 02-23-2005, 03:27 PM

I'd get my friend Stone Cold Steve Austin to wrestle him, yeahhhh. Then we'd have a beer and ride off on our harleys, yeaaahhhh. It's cool Stone Cold she was a biznitch anyway.

**Clardog** · 02-23-2005, 08:25 PM

lmao Leejo! I got that thread saved in a txt file and read it every three or four weeks!

Anyway getting clocked like that most likely stunned the guy pretty good and he couln'd have fought back if he had wanted, but had I been standing in that line I would have just put a bullet in ol' Jonesy there and been done with it.

**CingularDuality** · 02-23-2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFeniX

Doesn't matter, he obviously wasn't fighting back and the guy outweight him by over 200 pounds. He could easily have killed the guy.

I need to read up and see what my options would be in a situation like that (me watching this happen and wanting to take action that is).

Hmmm, I'm not sure if the law is different for you than it is for me, but I know that if I see somebody trying to kill another person (as in this video), I would be authorized (what's authorized on paper and what actually would be supported by my agency and local law enforcement aren't always the same, though...) to use deadly force to stop it. Deadly force would not be my first move, though. A 300 pound brute isn't really that scary. Verbal commands and maybe deflecting one of his punches from hitting the victim would probably distract him from his victim. From that point, he's either going to realize that he went too far and will leave, or he'll redirect his anger at me. If he quits and leaves, great. If he comes for me, I'll defend myself by whatever means necessary. If a guy is big enough that I think that one punch could knock me unconcious, thereby giving him access to my gun, then I would be in fear for my life and would use deadly force if necessary.

It's all about articulating why it was reasonable for you to use whatever level of force you had to use...

**DudeMan** · 02-23-2005, 09:42 PM

hmm this guy was intoxicated i think, although the report didnt say so... or i didnt see it, his body language suggests he is under the influence of some kind of drug, beit alcohol or worse.

i think that first punch did it, he was dazed after that,

as for interveneing... yeah i would, i have done before when the odds were stacked against me, and it left me with briused ribs and a black eye, but when someone is taking a beating like that, i cannot stand by... its against my nature...

**TheFeniX** · 02-23-2005, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

It's all about articulating why it was reasonable for you to use whatever level of force you had to use...

Until you start getting hit above the head, which is classified in itself as "deadly force," you are not justified in using your own deadly force. By that time, that guys going to have you out cold. He had no weapon on him other than what God (and obivously a lot of pizzas) gave him, therefore proving justification for killing him might be difficult.

HavokIA · 02-24-2005, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

as for interveneing... yeah i would, i have done before when the odds were stacked against me, and it left me with briused ribs and a black eye, but when someone is taking a beating like that, i cannot stand by... its against my nature...

There is no way I would stand idle if something like that occured. I would have to step in and help, that guy was so unbalanced I don't think it would have taken much to get him down. He was so concerned with kicking that guys ass, a quick blow to the throat will take anyone down. As for the guys standing around watching, I would expect if someone attempted to help they would have followed suit.

[D.I]WILDCHILD · 02-24-2005, 02:44 AM

this all sounds good in theory,but the fact is this happened very fast and i doubt if any of us were there we would have had time to react.we can see that the man who was attacked walked away fairly unhurt(mabey a few brusies)and in a violent situation that's the best you can hope for.it was unkown what kind of gun he had in his car or how many frineds were standing around the corner,i've been around a few dark allies and pool halls and have seen a simple situation like this end up in death and very serious harm.as for useing deadly force in this situation,unless you are a police officer,it is out of the question in my opinion,and if you are a police officer and this turns into a use of deadly force,well,you shouldn't,in my opinion,be a police officer.

**CingularDuality** · 02-24-2005, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFeniX

Until you start getting hit above the head, which is classified in itself as "deadly force," you are not justified in using your own deadly force. By that time, that guys going to have you out cold. He had no weapon on him other than what God (and obivously a lot of pizzas) gave him, therefore proving justification for killing him might be difficult.

This is so not true. Again, it's all about how you articulate it. You don't have to wait for someone to shoot you before you use deadly force on someone. Likewise, if you're a one hundred pound young lady, if this three hundred pound monster threatens to put his hands on you, it's very easy to articulate the reasonable need to use deadly force to protect your life. If you're a two hundred pound guy carrying a gun and this monster comes after you, you have to remember that if he knocks you unconcious that he'll have access to your weapon. You have no martial arts or other hand to hand combat training and this monster is obviously fond of physical altercations, so articulating the need for you to use something other than your fists to defend yourself would be simple.

Like I said, this is how I would provide for the reasonableness of my actions. It's all going to come down to the cops that respond to the scene and the DA that looks at the case against you, if you ever have to use deadly force...

I'm not a lawyer, though, so if you don't already have a RKBA-friendly lawyer's card in your wallet, you might want to do a little bit of research and find one. You're in Houston? I know of a lawyer there that might be able to help you either personally or in finding a good lawyer. This is a website that he set up to screw with a gunshow vendor that assaulted him: http://www.m-aparts.org/ I'm sure that you can find his legitimate business website/email address. He seems like a good guy. He occasionally hangs out with a group of people (a crew of cops, lawyers, doctors and other gun nuts...) in Houston that all post on www.ar15.com.

[D.I]WILDCHILD · 02-24-2005, 04:53 AM

well,i've been researching this subject for a hour now and let me tell you,the law is vauge and varies.i find it hard to belive that it is so hard to get a clearly defined definition of "the justified use of deadly force by a citizen".instinct is the leading factor in a life thretining situation,you lose most thought and go into "reaction mode",you don't really think about the law,as far as i can tell though,you are justified to use EQUAL force as is being applied to you ar a third party.more than EQUAL force is EXCESSIVE FORCE,and this is actionable by the courts.I am not arguiing with anyone here only engaging in a conversation with what i feel are extremly intelligent people,and that is what i enjoy about the tg forums.

NewsWrthy · 02-24-2005, 07:07 AM

This is a prime example of what happens in an un-armed sociaty. If he thought fo a sec the victim had a gun he would never have done that. I think it's time we take back our communities. Let every one know that we can and will defend our selves. If that had happened to me, he wouldn't be heading to jail right now. The first punch would have been fallowed by a call to 911 to have his guts sewed back together. I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6. I don't bother any one and expect the same.

[D.I]WILDCHILD · 02-24-2005, 07:23 AM

so you think you would of had time to pull a gun before that guy knocked you sensless unexpectedly?come on people,truth be told i'd much rather take a beating than get shot with my own gun or even to have to shoot someone else,mabey..jsut mabey shooting someone is not as easy as it is in cs. ;'/

**CingularDuality** · 02-24-2005, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [D.I]WILDCHILD

well,i've been researching this subject for a hour now and let me tell you,the law is vauge and varies.i find it hard to belive that it is so hard to get a clearly defined definition of "the justified use of deadly force by a citizen".

The law is not vague, but it certainly varies from state to state.

Quote:

instinct is the leading factor in a life thretining situation,you lose most thought and go into "reaction mode",you don't really think about the law,as far as i can tell though,

You're absolutely correct. That is why you must think about the law NOW and constantly be thinking about things before they happen. Once the excrement hits the oscillator, you'll already have a plan of action.

Quote:

you are justified to use EQUAL force as is being applied to you ar a third party.more than EQUAL force is EXCESSIVE FORCE,and this is actionable by the courts.

Sorry, man, but you did your hour of research in the wrong place. Can you show me any state law that says this? Using equal force means you end up dead. I know of no state that has an "equal force" standard. That's just silly.

If I'm not mistaken, every state allows for deadly force when you are in reasonable fear for your life. Most states allow for deadly force when you are in reasonable fear that a family member or another innocent person has their life endangered.

02-23-2005, 02:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
Pokerface Join Date: May 2003 Location: MD, USA Age: 30 Posts: 5,773	Re: If someone cuts in front of you in line for pizza, watch out! I'd mediate to the best of my ability, but if a guy who checks in a over six feet and over 300 pounds wants to start throwing punches, all me getting in the way will do is add another assault and battery charge, cause my weaking butt ain't gonna do much except soak a few more blows. Unless it's family or friend, my Good-Samaritan-o-meter doesn't typically go beyond the range of my Common-Sense-o-meter. __________________ NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues. Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality. <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

02-23-2005, 03:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: If someone cuts in front of you in line for pizza, watch out! I'd get my friend Stone Cold Steve Austin to wrestle him, yeahhhh. Then we'd have a beer and ride off on our harleys, yeaaahhhh. It's cool Stone Cold she was a biznitch anyway.

02-23-2005, 08:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
Clardog Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 23	Re: If someone cuts in front of you in line for pizza, watch out! lmao Leejo! I got that thread saved in a txt file and read it every three or four weeks! Anyway getting clocked like that most likely stunned the guy pretty good and he couln'd have fought back if he had wanted, but had I been standing in that line I would have just put a bullet in ol' Jonesy there and been done with it.

02-23-2005, 09:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
DudeMan Join Date: May 2003 Location: london England Age: 22 Posts: 3,258	Re: If someone cuts in front of you in line for pizza, watch out! hmm this guy was intoxicated i think, although the report didnt say so... or i didnt see it, his body language suggests he is under the influence of some kind of drug, beit alcohol or worse. i think that first punch did it, he was dazed after that, as for interveneing... yeah i would, i have done before when the odds were stacked against me, and it left me with briused ribs and a black eye, but when someone is taking a beating like that, i cannot stand by... its against my nature... __________________ The Queen "Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life," *Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community* TheFeniX "Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

02-24-2005, 02:44 AM	#10 (permalink)
[D.I]WILDCHILD Join Date: May 2003 Location: next to the gas station Age: 40 Posts: 154	Re: If someone cuts in front of you in line for pizza, watch out! this all sounds good in theory,but the fact is this happened very fast and i doubt if any of us were there we would have had time to react.we can see that the man who was attacked walked away fairly unhurt(mabey a few brusies)and in a violent situation that's the best you can hope for.it was unkown what kind of gun he had in his car or how many frineds were standing around the corner,i've been around a few dark allies and pool halls and have seen a simple situation like this end up in death and very serious harm.as for useing deadly force in this situation,unless you are a police officer,it is out of the question in my opinion,and if you are a police officer and this turns into a use of deadly force,well,you shouldn't,in my opinion,be a police officer. __________________ I reject your reality and replace it with my own!!..so let's cut out the middle man and just use mine!! I wasn't born with enough middle fingers!! If you choose to close the door on reality..DON'T OPEN THE WINDOW(S)!!

02-24-2005, 04:53 AM	#12 (permalink)
[D.I]WILDCHILD Join Date: May 2003 Location: next to the gas station Age: 40 Posts: 154	Re: If someone cuts in front of you in line for pizza, watch out! well,i've been researching this subject for a hour now and let me tell you,the law is vauge and varies.i find it hard to belive that it is so hard to get a clearly defined definition of "the justified use of deadly force by a citizen".instinct is the leading factor in a life thretining situation,you lose most thought and go into "reaction mode",you don't really think about the law,as far as i can tell though,you are justified to use EQUAL force as is being applied to you ar a third party.more than EQUAL force is EXCESSIVE FORCE,and this is actionable by the courts.I am not arguiing with anyone here only engaging in a conversation with what i feel are extremly intelligent people,and that is what i enjoy about the tg forums. __________________ I reject your reality and replace it with my own!!..so let's cut out the middle man and just use mine!! I wasn't born with enough middle fingers!! If you choose to close the door on reality..DON'T OPEN THE WINDOW(S)!!

02-24-2005, 07:07 AM	#13 (permalink)
NewsWrthy Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 372	Re: If someone cuts in front of you in line for pizza, watch out! This is a prime example of what happens in an un-armed sociaty. If he thought fo a sec the victim had a gun he would never have done that. I think it's time we take back our communities. Let every one know that we can and will defend our selves. If that had happened to me, he wouldn't be heading to jail right now. The first punch would have been fallowed by a call to 911 to have his guts sewed back together. I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6. I don't bother any one and expect the same. __________________

02-24-2005, 07:23 AM	#14 (permalink)
[D.I]WILDCHILD Join Date: May 2003 Location: next to the gas station Age: 40 Posts: 154	Re: If someone cuts in front of you in line for pizza, watch out! so you think you would of had time to pull a gun before that guy knocked you sensless unexpectedly?come on people,truth be told i'd much rather take a beating than get shot with my own gun or even to have to shoot someone else,mabey..jsut mabey shooting someone is not as easy as it is in cs. ;'/ __________________ I reject your reality and replace it with my own!!..so let's cut out the middle man and just use mine!! I wasn't born with enough middle fingers!! If you choose to close the door on reality..DON'T OPEN THE WINDOW(S)!!

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