luna

Okay, now I'm really confused. A genocide, referred to as the potato famine? I'm familiar with the potato famine. I am not familiar with it being identified as a genocide. I'm gonna have to go do some research.

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Wintermute

<pulls dudeman and root apart after a bloodstained two page thread>

I want to try to inject some sanity here.

Ireland:
Cing, the Republic of Ireland is a seperate country with it's own parliament. Northern Ireland is part of the UK. Most of it's citizens are loyalist protestants of English decent which is why they will always win referendums. Yes the English raped Ireland as they did many other countries in the past.

Today's government only wants a situation that everyone can agree on, both the republicans, and the decendants of the protestants who now call NI home. It is unfair to suggest they (we) are still intent on repressing the loyalists.

The Terror Bill:
I dislike this legislation, but it is not as bad as you make out. The exact number of detainees is known. They are lettered for identification to the public. It is a handfull only. You can not be detained for being a foreigner, but only foreigners can be detained. They all have evidence against them and a (independant) judge gets to see it, but it is classified for security reasons.

ID cards are a plain bad idea, and the Terror Bill needs replacing with something that has been considered propperly and conforms to the EU convention on human rights properly, not rushed through.

I guess we know why you are so ready with the landmines on the CS server eh?

Do you think I should be locked up for smoking dope? I am a hard working student, I vote, I don't commit crime, I work part time in the holidays, I don't do hard drugs and I will go on to become a productive member of society. In the words of Mike Skinner "Why should a drug with no recorded fatalities be illegal when hospitals up and down the land are full of drunken louts who get in fights?"

Can you say politicians aren't worth voting for to the millions who are in work today who were unemployed in 1997?

To those who were trapped in negative equity mortgages in the 80's and are now sitting pretty after one of the longest sustained periods of economic growth ever, despite recession elsewhere?

To the 50% of young people who will get degrees when many of their parents didn't go to university?

What about Robin Cook, the ex foreign secratary who resigned on principle when Blair went to war. He received a standing ovation in the commons (the only person to receive one AFAIK).

What do you say to the families of those killed by the IRA, when there are no more bombings? To both the republicans and the loyalists who are in agreement with each other and sat down together talking at last. To Gerry Adams, who today told the IRA that the time for violence has ended?

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Wintermute

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9 v

Reading Dudeman and playing with Root, i did wonder what would happen when they...met.

Can i ask why you feel so strongly about dope, Root?

IceCold

Because until the person has his/her day in court and is found guilty, the presumption of innocence is always there in civilized nations. This does not preclude societies from taking reasonable security measures to protect the public while attempting to prove his/her guilt...

Root

Yeah, I meant why for example, should you be called a *suspect* if you pull out a gun and shoot someone in the face in front of witnesses? Ok, so don't call them a criminal, but suspect? I suspect you shot someone in the face because I was standing there and saw you do it? As a civilian, I can arrest you on suspicion, but personally, I've only ever made an arrest because I've seen the criminal commit the offence. Suspect seems to be the wrong word to use from a technical point of view, as it comes from the word suspicion, which is often lacking due to overwhelming fact. Someone should make up a new word. Criminalthathasn'tbeenconvictedofityetbuttheydidit honest is a bit of a mouthful

Root

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IceCold

It's used because the court suspects him of having committed a crime based on the allegations presented by the arresting person/prosecutor. The court can't address the accused person with anything that would indicate bias, nor would they want to be biased due to somebody being labeled a certain way...

TheFeniX

Thanks, I spent a few decaseconds to come up with that.

Never bring a knife to a gun fight: I don't care how well trained you are, .45 ACP rounds being rapid fired > a blunt stick.

American officers carry a variety of tools to assist them: Mace, night-sticks (a much more manly name for a "be cool stick"), bullet-proof vests, handcuffs, 12 gauge pump shotguns (not always standard), tazers, a trusty firearm and other toys depending on the officer. Sounds like a party to me.

American police officers use their brain as the primary weapon of choice. I would bet British officers do the same (or the comical value of the hats they wear).

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DudeMan

you see honestly, what part of your posts are even helpful, did you even neglect to read that British police are armed, they have 9mm side arms, but they conceal them and do not use them all the time, they have a night stick, they have hand cuffs, they have CS GAS, they have the kevlar....

but ofcourse with your posts your entire mindset is to try to say... "duh.... were better than you... i have seeen all the films that proves we are better than you..."

again ignorance filled post = total bull ****.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

DudeMan

oh and i missed the part about dope smoking...

canabis has been moved from a class be drug to a class c drug... it has by no means of the law been legalised. the only difference is relaxed punishments for smoking the drug. you can still be cautioned and given enough offenses be taken to court for smoking it. dealing the drug or handling more than is deemed to be for "personal Use" I.E for dealing is still a serious criminal offence.

but tell me, whats the point in putting the same money and effort into going after canabis users, than going after crack and heroin users.

with canabis, you are not really addicted, with heroin its like air, you need it, and alot of crimes violent and otherwise are committed by those people.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

TheFeniX

None really. I just like to interject some comedy to relieve some of the seriousness of the thread.

And yet your claim that American officers primary means of arrest is the gun is informed?

We are better. The TV told me so and it would never lie! Although, I will give you guys credit for Alan Rickman

Can you really "fill" a post with ignorance? This might require some reflection. Since ignorance is the absense of knowledge: is that possible?

Now we could parity it and say: "Your post is the void filled with ignorance." See voids are usually empty. But if it's it's a ignorance filled void, you think about it for a second and say "oooohhhh yeeeeea." And everything works out.

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DudeMan

well i fail to see any "funny side" in your last posts at all, all i got was BS about how useless our police force is.

and my quote about primary means of arrest, ok, maybe i worded that incorrectly, our officers do not carry their weapons visable as a means of deterence. in England we prefere that the police are not menacing to everyone, and take pride in our officers not carrying their weapons in this way.

your society, may need the use of visable guns, as of now (and im not saying that wont change) we do not.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

TheFeniX

I never said useless, just that they look funny in those hats.

A matte black Glock or Ruger isn't always obvious. In fact, the main thing people look at when a cop is talking is either his face or his flashlight.

I've noticed from personal experience that most officer tend to stand cocked to one side, with the gun side hidden behind them, out of view from who they are talking to. This is intelligent from both an etiquette standpoint (gun is less visible, so it's out of mind) and from a tactical standpoint (he can fight off an attacker with his left hand while also being able to draw without the suspect noticing).

Hence, while American officers do not conceal their weapons, I have never once seen an officer use it (in it's holster) to intimidate.

I don't know one American who would consider seeing an officer dining at a restaurant with his gun in view "menacing." If anything, they feel more secure knowing that the officer is well prepared for a situation that requires action. For me at least (and this is probably nationality talking), if I didn't see a gun on an officer: I'd second guess his ability to protect people.

Besides, it let's me determine who's got the Colt .45 and who's carrying the puny 9mm.

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DudeMan

america feels the need to arm its officers and in some areas its civillians (texas i think) to secure its population. we dont, i have been in many confrontations with people, and i have never deemed it necesary for a gun. i have on the other hand first hand seen the police use their weapons, an armed robbery took place and the suspect was hiding out in the school i live in. the police were at the scene within minutes and the entire perimeter was shut down with MP5 cover, and snipers were called in,

i consider myself lucky to have seen something like that because it very seldom happens, and i know aswell as the people know if the use of fire arms are needed the police and SAS will be there to use them for our security.

as for day to day petty crimes, i do not need to even think about the use of such weapons and i believe the police service are doing a great job without them. recently the Police themselvs took a vote on whether or not they wished to carry fire arms perminantly, and they turned it down. that is all the proof i need, if the guy on the front line says i dont need them, who am i you or any politician to disagree.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

CingularDuality

Dudeman, before you label someone's post as ignorant, perhaps you should educate yourself a little more on your country's police forces and just how many of them are always armed while on duty. Most of Britain's cops are NOT regularly armed with a firearm while on duty. That is a fact.

In fact, it's interesting, because your newspaper headlines specify when a police raid is "armed". I can't imagine taking down a drug house without guns, but I regularly see headlines like "ARMED POLICE RAID NETS LOAD OF ECSTASY"

Can you imagine FoxNews running a poll/debate question LIKE THIS? OR THIS?

As to whether an unarmed police force is effective or not? Well, I'll leave you to your country's rising violent crime rate to figure that out...

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DudeMan

oh and FYI the reason for using a gun is not always to kill, a 9mm is an effective weapon in stoping someone from doing harm. there ar many people who do stupid things and can still contribute to society, killing them is not always the best answer, and a 9mm can if required kill someone.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"