You haven't forgotten this, have you? - Page 3

dragon · 12-06-2003, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Quote:

Things like this need to be left alone and remembered in silent respect...

I disagree. People are already forgetting exactly what was done to us.

Do you remember how you felt on that day? Do you remember your shock, your horror, your fear? THAT is what you should not forget.

Yeah and what about the people we have done the same thing to ???? HUH anyone everthink of that???? I bet not so how about remember ...Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Vietnam, Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo...... Hmmm list goes on were WE the United States of America have killed millions upon millions of innocent people.

I am not flaming I am just tired of the US is god attitude everyone in this country has. I served in desert storm, I served in Kosovo, I was there in Kuwait. War is a way for the RULER of a country to show he has balls and it is the demise of this country as we know it. The economy is not bad because jobs suck is is because the government is rebuilding every country that is on a Earth.

Yes I am patriotic to our country but I have seen few president worth bowing to. Also remember that this webpage is viewed in other countries ( and canada.....LOL) so it may be offensive to some. Also so believe that the war on terrorism was and is wrong so it may offend them. I myself enjoyed the clips and want to thank you for posting them but dont jump on someone for a belief

Axiom · 12-07-2003, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Quote:

Things like this need to be left alone and remembered in silent respect...

I disagree. People are already forgetting exactly what was done to us.

Do you remember how you felt on that day? Do you remember your shock, your horror, your fear? THAT is what you should not forget.

Yeah and what about the people we have done the same thing to ???? HUH anyone everthink of that???? I bet not so how about remember ...Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Vietnam, Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo...... Hmmm list goes on were WE the United States of America have killed millions upon millions of innocent people.

I am not flaming I am just tired of the US is god attitude everyone in this country has. I served in desert storm, I served in Kosovo, I was there in Kuwait. War is a way for the RULER of a country to show he has balls and it is the demise of this country as we know it. The economy is not bad because jobs suck is is because the government is rebuilding every country that is on a Earth.

Yes I am patriotic to our country but I have seen few president worth bowing to. Also remember that this webpage is viewed in other countries ( and canada.....LOL) so it may be offensive to some. Also so believe that the war on terrorism was and is wrong so it may offend them. I myself enjoyed the clips and want to thank you for posting them but dont jump on someone for a belief

Thanks for this post dragon. Very good one.

dragon · 12-07-2003, 11:56 AM

Thank You Axiom . I was expecting to get flamed and sure didn't expect that reply LOL.

Again CD I was not flaming you and hope you didn't take it that way. But the US is not a bunch of angels LOL

dragon · 12-07-2003, 11:59 AM

BTW Today everyone should be remembering the people who were lost during Pearl Harbor

**CingularDuality** · 12-07-2003, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon

BTW Today everyone should be remembering the people who were lost during Pearl Harbor

Indeed.

My point in getting people to remember is not to ignore other events, but just not to forget the feelings that coursed through your body that day. I didn't understand half of your post, but I think I got the gist of it... And although you're right about innocents dying (with the exception of the inflated numbers), there is a difference between collatoral damage and intentionally trying to destroy the tallest buildings in the world while they're filled with innocent people from all over the world...

I know the US isn't perfect, but it's the best there is right now, and I'll do anything I can to make sure it stays the best...

dragon · 12-07-2003, 02:03 PM

I talk to people with this same attitude everyday. Now who is to say what the diffrence of collatoral damage and intentionally trying to destroy something?

If I understand right you are saying that the innocent people of baghdad were collatoral damage when tomahawks were launched into the city. Probablly because we were in a war right?

**Wolfie** · 12-07-2003, 07:06 PM

I found this on the net

check this out

Quote:

Israel waged war in the 60s to take more Arab land for their own, and the US has aided them at all steps of their development.

Proof that everything on the net is not true. I guess the author of this site failed to informed his readers that it was the Arabs that started the war in the 60s and the war in the 70s........

**Wolfie** · 12-07-2003, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon

Bosnia, Kosovo...... Hmmm list goes on were WE the United States of America have killed millions upon millions of innocent people.

I might be mistaken but I seriously doubt the US killed thousands, yet alone millions, of innocent people in those two theatres of conflict. I think the people living in those areas killed more innocent people than the US has in the past 20 years...

In fact, I seriously doubt that the US has killed millions of millions innocent people in all the wars from WWII to today....

dragon · 12-07-2003, 07:15 PM

Now wolf you have to specify on what wars you are talking about. Since 1948 the Arab's and isreal have been at war but had multiple fights that count up to atleast 11 battles, with both sides evading or attacking the other off and on.

dragon · 12-07-2003, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon

Bosnia, Kosovo...... Hmmm list goes on were WE the United States of America have killed millions upon millions of innocent people.

I might be mistaken but I seriously doubt the US killed thousands, yet alone millions, of innocent people in those two theatres of conflict. I think the people living in those areas killed more innocent people than the US has in the past 20 years.......

Well first quote me right

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon

...Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Vietnam, Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo...... Hmmm list goes on were WE the United States of America have killed millions upon millions of innocent people.

I am sure there is a thousand or two maybe more since countries were disintegrated in two of them. Maybe it was far fetched saying millions but the point was to make a issue of the fact that the US has killed innocents just like the people we call terrorists. The US kills innocents it is collateral damage and someone kills innocent americans it is terrorism. That is the point.

**Wolfie** · 12-07-2003, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon

The US kills innocents it is collateral damage and someone kills innocent americans it is terrorism. That is the point.

Well first off, you shouldn't be including the first two areas as they were during WWII. That wasn't the US killing innocents, that was the US trying to end a war started by Nazi Germany and Feudal Japan.

Besides which, more people died in the firebombing raids than in the atomic bomb raids....

But let us look at terrorism and collateral damage.

When the US bombed targets in Iraq, what was the purpose of the bombing? To take out targets critical to the Iraqi government and the Iraqi military. Were there civilian casaulties because of these bombing runs? Yes there were as you have civilians working in these areas and alot of these targets are in civilian areas. However, the US military strived to limit collateral damage as much as possible. Hell, if the US didn't care about innocent people, why use smart bombes? Carpet bombing would work just as well and is alot easier to deploy.

Terrorism, on the other hand, specifically targets civilians, innocent people. Terrorism goal is to simply kill as many people as possible. They don't care about who gets in the way, they just want to bomb people.

dragon · 12-07-2003, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

Terrorism, on the other hand, specifically targets civilians, innocent people. Terrorism goal is to simply kill as many people as possible. They don't care about who gets in the way, they just want to bomb people.

LMAO so my point is made. 911 was NOT a act of terrorism in your own words.

Before you start with the flame ..... World Trade Center and the Pentagon were the hit targets. 4th target was the White House. These are military/governmant buildings and the WTC was the icon of our whole economy. What more of a better target to cripple someone then were the money is at right? The goal for 911 was not kill americans just because. It was to cripple the America Trade Org and Government. So in your words 911 deaths were collateral damage.

THANK YOU GOD MY POINT IS MADE AND CLEAR

LOL

dragon · 12-07-2003, 07:49 PM

I'll give you the WWII arguement because I brought that up to just show that america has always used more force then needed. Iraq was won before we even bombed Baghdad and anyone that has served in the military will agree on that so bombing a whole city was harsh. Oh and we did carpet bomb baghdad along with surronding cities. Remember the first time they thought they had killed saddam was with a carpet bomb run in a restraunt.

**Wolfie** · 12-07-2003, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon

Before you start with the flame ..... World Trade Center and the Pentagon were the hit targets. 4th target was the White House. These are military/governmant buildings and the WTC was the icon of our whole economy. What more of a better target to cripple someone then were the money is at right? The goal for 911 was not kill americans just because. It was to cripple the America Trade Org and Government. So in your words 911 deaths were collateral damage.

THANK YOU GOD MY POINT IS MADE AND CLEAR

And what was the "war" that OBL fighting? Oh yeah, he was fighting against the Saudi government to take over the nation and he didn't like the fact that the Saudi government was allowing Americans inside the borders. He wasn't fighting the US because it was taking away his land or his rights or threatening his life with death or oppression. He was fighting the US because it was supporting legimate governments and the US had the nerve to station heathens in the "holy land".

That is not collateral damage, that is terrorism. Were the people on the planes part of his plan? No. Were the people in the WTC part of the US military? No. Were the people in the WTC part of the US government? No.

A power plant is significantly different than an office building, I shouldn't have to explain the differences.

**Wolfie** · 12-07-2003, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon

Oh and we did carpet bomb baghdad along with surronding cities. Remember the first time they thought they had killed saddam was with a carpet bomb run in a restraunt.

I didn't realize that bunker busters dropped by F117 and precision strikes by Tomahawks were considered "carpet bombing".......

http://www.iht.com/articles/90371.html

12-07-2003, 11:56 AM	#33 (permalink)
dragon Join Date: May 2003 Age: 31 Posts: 496	Thank You Axiom . I was expecting to get flamed and sure didn't expect that reply LOL. Again CD I was not flaming you and hope you didn't take it that way. But the US is not a bunch of angels LOL __________________ WARNING: DO NOT LET DR. MARIO TOUCH YOUR GENITALS. HE IS NOT A REAL DOCTOR.

12-07-2003, 11:59 AM	#34 (permalink)
dragon Join Date: May 2003 Age: 31 Posts: 496	BTW Today everyone should be remembering the people who were lost during Pearl Harbor __________________ WARNING: DO NOT LET DR. MARIO TOUCH YOUR GENITALS. HE IS NOT A REAL DOCTOR.

12-07-2003, 02:03 PM	#36 (permalink)
dragon Join Date: May 2003 Age: 31 Posts: 496	I talk to people with this same attitude everyday. Now who is to say what the diffrence of collatoral damage and intentionally trying to destroy something? If I understand right you are saying that the innocent people of baghdad were collatoral damage when tomahawks were launched into the city. Probablly because we were in a war right? __________________ WARNING: DO NOT LET DR. MARIO TOUCH YOUR GENITALS. HE IS NOT A REAL DOCTOR.

12-07-2003, 07:15 PM	#39 (permalink)
dragon Join Date: May 2003 Age: 31 Posts: 496	Now wolf you have to specify on what wars you are talking about. Since 1948 the Arab's and isreal have been at war but had multiple fights that count up to atleast 11 battles, with both sides evading or attacking the other off and on. __________________ WARNING: DO NOT LET DR. MARIO TOUCH YOUR GENITALS. HE IS NOT A REAL DOCTOR.

12-07-2003, 07:49 PM	#43 (permalink)
dragon Join Date: May 2003 Age: 31 Posts: 496	I'll give you the WWII arguement because I brought that up to just show that america has always used more force then needed. Iraq was won before we even bombed Baghdad and anyone that has served in the military will agree on that so bombing a whole city was harsh. Oh and we did carpet bomb baghdad along with surronding cities. Remember the first time they thought they had killed saddam was with a carpet bomb run in a restraunt. __________________ WARNING: DO NOT LET DR. MARIO TOUCH YOUR GENITALS. HE IS NOT A REAL DOCTOR.

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