You haven't forgotten this, have you? - Page 4

12-07-2003, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon

I'll give you the WWII arguement because I brought that up to just show that america has always used more force then needed. Iraq was won before we even bombed Baghdad and anyone that has served in the military will agree on that so bombing a whole city was harsh. Oh and we did carpet bomb baghdad along with surronding cities. Remember the first time they thought they had killed saddam was with a carpet bomb run in a restraunt.

Tighten up bro...you're facts are WAY lacking. We didn't raze baghdad...It was an EXTREMELY surgical strike. However until we can vaporize individual targets from orbit via a high-power chemical laser...some civilian casualties will occur.

dragon · 12-07-2003, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon

Before you start with the flame ..... World Trade Center and the Pentagon were the hit targets. 4th target was the White House. These are military/governmant buildings and the WTC was the icon of our whole economy. What more of a better target to cripple someone then were the money is at right? The goal for 911 was not kill americans just because. It was to cripple the America Trade Org and Government. So in your words 911 deaths were collateral damage.

THANK YOU GOD MY POINT IS MADE AND CLEAR

And what was the "war" that OBL fighting? Oh yeah, he was fighting against the Saudi government to take over the nation and he didn't like the fact that the Saudi government was allowing Americans inside the borders. He wasn't fighting the US because it was taking away his land or his rights or threatening his life with death or oppression. He was fighting the US because it was supporting legimate governments and the US had the nerve to station heathens in the "holy land".

That is not collateral damage, that is terrorism. Were the people on the planes part of his plan? No. Were the people in the WTC part of the US military? No. Were the people in the WTC part of the US government? No.

A power plant is significantly different than an office building, I shouldn't have to explain the differences.

I can see your point on OBL and you have a good arguement there but I was in the Army when clinton had his chance at OBL and didn't take it because he thought that the threats were just talk you are also right about the people on the planes. But the WTC had government units in it. DEA, FBI, IRS, and WTO they are all "government" by technical standards. am I right? bottom line is there is a fine line between terrorism and collateral damage. We technically were in war. Osama declared war in a way that he felt was the best and that was by a sneak attack on his enemy and trying to cripple what the country was built around. The Trade Organization is the biggest part of americas money, pentagon is the Heart of our military, and the White House is the heart of our government. Just like we sent tomahawks at their military buildings in baghdad. I am sure if the US would have thought of the idea of hijacking their planes and blowing up their building we woulldn't be descusing this now. We would feel that we were right in our actions just like they do. I am not saying that it was right but at same time everyone lately is still up in arms about something that happened 2 years ago and no one still knows why it happened. This is going in circles so I am not replying no more LOL

dragon · 12-07-2003, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon

Oh and we did carpet bomb baghdad along with surronding cities. Remember the first time they thought they had killed saddam was with a carpet bomb run in a restraunt.

I didn't realize that bunker busters dropped by F117 and precision strikes by Tomahawks were considered "carpet bombing".......

http://www.iht.com/articles/90371.html

You could be correct on the article but I recalled it was a carpet bombing that they layed straight down that whole street. If I was mistaken I am sorry. But I know it was not a tomahawk that hit the building maybe a bunkerbuster if anything

dragon · 12-07-2003, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectre

Tighten up bro...you're facts are WAY lacking. We didn't raze baghdad...It was an EXTREMELY surgical strike. However until we can vaporize individual targets from orbit via a high-power chemical laser...some civilian casualties will occur.

yes parts of the attack were surgical but there were still carpet bombing attacks. I agree that civilians will be a factor I aint saying there wont.

**Wolfie** · 12-07-2003, 09:39 PM

Speaking of OBL, anyone else noticed a repeat of the past?

OBL and alot of the current militant leaders are telling the youth of the middle east that all the problems they face (no jobs, no rights, etc) are because of the Jews and the Americans....

Someone else did the exact same thing back in the 1930s :shock:

12-07-2003, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

Speaking of OBL, anyone else noticed a repeat of the past?

OBL and alot of the current militant leaders are telling the youth of the middle east that all the problems they face (no jobs, no rights, etc) are because of the Jews and the Americans....

Someone else did the exact same thing back in the 1930s :shock:

Would Mr. Adolph please stand up ???? 8)

**luna** · 12-07-2003, 10:20 PM

I have absolutely no recollection of any "carpet bombing" taking place in Baghdad. I recall surgical strikes, that strived for minimum civilian casualties. I also recall distinctly the US dropping pamphlets to the citizens telling them how to keep themselves safe, and not be mistaken as hostile.

That's an awful lot of effort to blow it all on carpet bombing.

**CingularDuality** · 12-07-2003, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =luna=

I have absolutely no recollection of any "carpet bombing" taking place in Baghdad. I recall surgical strikes, that strived for minimum civilian casualties. I also recall distinctly the US dropping pamphlets to the citizens telling them how to keep themselves safe, and not be mistaken as hostile.

That's an awful lot of effort to blow it all on carpet bombing.

I was about to ask Dragon to please post some more information about our "carpet bombing"...

**_Ender_** · 12-07-2003, 10:23 PM

I must admit, the US did do a good job in Iraq in regard of keeping the civilian casualties down to a low number. We could of just said "screw them all" and dropped a nuke on them.

12-08-2003, 12:43 AM

If you want to know what the hell carpet bombing is, ask the residents of Tokyo, Dresden, Hamburg and Berlin.

We did NOT carpet bomb any Iraqi city.

Carpet bombing is blacking out the sun with bombers, and dropping tens of thousands of tons of ordnance on a target. We did nothing of the sort in Iraq. We didn't even carpet bomb an urban area during the Vietnam War. Operations Linebacker, Rolling thunder and Linebacker II targeted military areas deep within the jungles of North Vietnam.

An interesting story about the effects of carpet bombing by B-52s is this:

"After one of the raids, a U.S. infantry patrol scoured ground zero. It had an almost unearthly appearance. The red Vietnamese clay had been blasted into a path of craters more than 2 miles long and at least 800 yards wide. What once was lush jungle was now as barren as the surface of the moon. In the tree line a shape appeared, stumbling toward them. It was a man, or what once may have been a man. The figure had no clothing and a substantial portion of his skin missing. He bled from his eyes, ears, anus and any other openings. The South Vietnamese medic rushed to his aid and asked him what had happened. The man stated he was an NVA soldier who was ordered to guard a tunnel entrance. This tunnel was adjacent to one of the primary drop areas of a B-52 carpet bombing raid. He took shelter in a small concrete redoubt near the facility, the whole time exposed to the shockwaves and deafening noise. When he started to ramble on incoherently, the medic clapped his hands to regain the man's attention. Upon hearing the sound, the man proceeded to defecate upon himself, so shocked by the strike which he had just lived through. After administering the man morphine to ease his pain, the NVA soldier died in the care of that medic."

Time magazine, November 1969

THAT my friends is carpet bombing. Make no mistake; Baghdad would know if they went through that.

Emanon · 12-08-2003, 01:35 AM

After watching some of these reality shows, especially that new one with the Hilton girl. Makes me almost think that those terrorist had a point.

12-08-2003, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanon

After watching some of these reality shows, especially that new one with the Hilton girl. Makes me almost think that those terrorist had a point.

Exactly.

**_Ender_** · 12-08-2003, 02:18 AM

LOL she didnt know what a "walmart" was... too funny.

**CingularDuality** · 12-08-2003, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Ender_

LOL she didnt know what a "walmart" was... too funny.

and fake...

12-08-2003, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Ender_

LOL she didnt know what a "walmart" was... too funny.

and fake...

Stupid rich kids who've never had to work a day in their miserable lives need to die.

12-07-2003, 10:20 PM	#52 (permalink)
luna Join Date: May 2003 Location: Rhode Island Age: 30 Posts: 4,136	I have absolutely no recollection of any "carpet bombing" taking place in Baghdad. I recall surgical strikes, that strived for minimum civilian casualties. I also recall distinctly the US dropping pamphlets to the citizens telling them how to keep themselves safe, and not be mistaken as hostile. That's an awful lot of effort to blow it all on carpet bombing. __________________ Resurgent's New Motivational Motto: "Now train harder! Live inside your character! If it dies, YOU DIE! Focus!" Jesus had a soulstone.

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12-07-2003, 09:39 PM	#50 (permalink)
Wolfie Join Date: May 2003 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 1,405	Speaking of OBL, anyone else noticed a repeat of the past? OBL and alot of the current militant leaders are telling the youth of the middle east that all the problems they face (no jobs, no rights, etc) are because of the Jews and the Americans.... Someone else did the exact same thing back in the 1930s :shock:

12-07-2003, 10:23 PM	#54 (permalink)
_Ender_ Join Date: May 2003 Location: I am lost, if you know where I am then please feel free to tell me. Age: 29 Posts: 2,048	I must admit, the US did do a good job in Iraq in regard of keeping the civilian casualties down to a low number. We could of just said "screw them all" and dropped a nuke on them.

12-08-2003, 12:43 AM	#55 (permalink)
Spectre Guest Posts: n/a	If you want to know what the hell carpet bombing is, ask the residents of Tokyo, Dresden, Hamburg and Berlin. We did NOT carpet bomb any Iraqi city. Carpet bombing is blacking out the sun with bombers, and dropping tens of thousands of tons of ordnance on a target. We did nothing of the sort in Iraq. We didn't even carpet bomb an urban area during the Vietnam War. Operations Linebacker, Rolling thunder and Linebacker II targeted military areas deep within the jungles of North Vietnam. An interesting story about the effects of carpet bombing by B-52s is this: "After one of the raids, a U.S. infantry patrol scoured ground zero. It had an almost unearthly appearance. The red Vietnamese clay had been blasted into a path of craters more than 2 miles long and at least 800 yards wide. What once was lush jungle was now as barren as the surface of the moon. In the tree line a shape appeared, stumbling toward them. It was a man, or what once may have been a man. The figure had no clothing and a substantial portion of his skin missing. He bled from his eyes, ears, anus and any other openings. The South Vietnamese medic rushed to his aid and asked him what had happened. The man stated he was an NVA soldier who was ordered to guard a tunnel entrance. This tunnel was adjacent to one of the primary drop areas of a B-52 carpet bombing raid. He took shelter in a small concrete redoubt near the facility, the whole time exposed to the shockwaves and deafening noise. When he started to ramble on incoherently, the medic clapped his hands to regain the man's attention. Upon hearing the sound, the man proceeded to defecate upon himself, so shocked by the strike which he had just lived through. After administering the man morphine to ease his pain, the NVA soldier died in the care of that medic." Time magazine, November 1969 THAT my friends is carpet bombing. Make no mistake; Baghdad would know if they went through that.

12-08-2003, 01:35 AM	#56 (permalink)
Emanon Banned Join Date: May 2003 Age: 25 Posts: 1,249	After watching some of these reality shows, especially that new one with the Hilton girl. Makes me almost think that those terrorist had a point.

12-08-2003, 02:18 AM	#58 (permalink)
_Ender_ Join Date: May 2003 Location: I am lost, if you know where I am then please feel free to tell me. Age: 29 Posts: 2,048	LOL she didnt know what a "walmart" was... too funny.

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