Wolfie

Agreed, but don't you think just the threat of an armed uprising had alot to do with the former President stepping down? :P

Benny_

yep, you're probably right. Just like the threat of force made the Iraq's/Koreans/|Vietnamese/etc.etc back down.

I'm not a fan of gun law but do understand the arguments. I didn't approve of the Iraq war, but purely on the basis of the lies that were told. I don't think that empowering the people to overthrow is a good reason to legitimise arms (caveat - in a developed country)

I've had the gun rows with Cing, and I really do see your arguments, just cannot agree. see the caveat above.

Spectre

Do you drop napalm and tactical nukes on a city you're trying to pacify???

This is the main point anti-gun types like to make, they state that since the government has _______ the people armed with firearms don't stand a chance anyway.

This is a total fallacy. Question, whats the largest standing army in the world today??? The United States citizenry. You forget that the people could wage such a long and brutal guerilla war against the government that wonder weapons have zero long-term effect against 100+ Million freedom fighters.

Also, the situation I would see would be a point where the government would...for some reason suspend our Constitutional rights. Then increase it's grip on our lives through various means. If this happened, the populance WOULD resist eventually.

Plus a large portion of the armed forces would defect to the side of the people, considering we swore to "protect the CONSTITUTION and the AMERICAN PEOPLE from ALL enemies, both foreign and domestic."

What I speak of would be the 2nd American civil war, and it's coming. I give it within a 100 year time frame.

It may be an "old" point, but what did the Nazis do when initially gaining control of Germany??? They abolished ALL private citizens right to own firearms. It doesn't matter how many tanks, planes and nukes a government has if their enemy is 100+ Million of it's own people.

_Ender_

Do you honestly think so? I can see a couple of rednecks in mississippi who would start yelling, but the populance as a whole is really stupid and would follow anything the government says, especially if government justifies what they're doing by saying something about "terrorists" and "for your own safety". I mean ****, the government right now is taking freedoms away from us, and nobody but a select few seem to care.

As a whole you're right, my argument has been made by many anti gun people (which I am not, I just like the replies the pro-gun people give me because its always the same), but out of all the time I have heard this argument come up, I have yet to here one question answered. Why? Why would the government want to do this?

CingularDuality

Because power corrupts.

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Spectre

Ender...simply study human history and you'll understand EXACTLY why the founding fathers drafted the 2nd Amendment into the U.S. Constitution. Just because this is "modern" times doesn't mean mankind has changed one bit since Shakespeare wrote "Hamlet."

People should always have the means to shape and re-shape government. The arguments you make of "why bother" and "It'll never happen" are dripping with apathy. They sound of the logic of a fat-lazy person who cares not about their fate.

_Ender_

Whose fault is that? Its our fault, our fault for not electing people who will look out for us and not just themselves, who actually cares about us and not their bank book.

The reason why power corrupts is because stupid people let it.

We do, its called an "election" something else our founding fathers gave us. The election we have every 4 years dictates who we want to lead us, our problem is we keep electing these people who are all full of **** instead of people who we need and who would benefit us and our future, not somebody who is looking out for themselves and their friends. Thats our problem... until people start voting smart and not for the guy who has the best speech writer and looks good, this country is doomed.

You dont think we can change? So humans are doomed because of our history? Its funny, you're saying that I'm making the argument of "why bother" but it seems you're the one who has given up on us. I actually have hope for the future, hope that some day we will change, we will get smarter, we will achieve a new evolution, or as the past has dictate so many times before, we will either be forced to evolve, or will be killed.. you may think thats funny and that I've gone crazy, but look around. Its happening right now. We're slowly being killed off, diseases, viruses, starvation..., **** ourselves, like we dont have enough **** to worry about we're killing ourselves.. Our time has come, we need to start thinking about our future and stop living in the past. We need to find those people who look to the future, and by "future" I dont mean "until his term is up".

luna

We have ALWAYS been being killed off- now is no different than anytime before.

Well no, that isn't true. Now people are surviving significantly longer, leading healthier lives (Plague, anyone?) and the population is at its largest (could be a good or bad thing).

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