Vote against the energy bill

jex · 01-23-2004, 06:09 AM

As a member of NRDC I received this email today. Since I don't live in the US I cannot email congress to oppose this bill, I'm hoping perhaps someone can do so in my place.

Many thanks,

Jex.

Dear NRDC BioGems Defender,

Over the next few weeks, President Bush and his congressional allies will try once again to ram their disastrous energy bill through the U.S. Senate. They fell only two votes short in November and they've vowed to make passage of the bill their top priority now that Congress has returned from recess.

This bill may be the worst piece of legislation you and I will see in our
lifetimes. It would pick your pocket, despoil your natural heritage, endanger your family's health and smother your hope for a more secure energy future. We ignore this bill at our own peril.

Let me tell you our simple plan for thwarting this shameless attack on our
environment and pocketbooks. If millions of Americans each took one minute to protest this bill, it would cause every senator who is tempted to vote for it to think twice about doing so.

You can make this happen within the next few hours by doing two things:

First, go to http://www.savebiogems.org/takeaction.asp?src=RR0401
and send your two senators an email or fax, telling them to vote against this pro-polluter energy bill. Then, forward my email to at least four of your
friends, family members or colleagues.

I am emailing this message to 500,000 BioGems Defenders and other NRDC activists. If each one forwards this message to just four more people, we will generate a national tidal wave of opposition before this day is over.

And that won't be a moment too soon. This disgraceful bill would pick our
pockets to hand out billions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies to the oil, coal
and nuclear industries. That's their long-awaited reward for making big-time contributions to the Bush-Cheney campaign. They profit while the rest of us pay the price -- in tax dollars and environmental degradation.

This bill gives the energy giants a free pass to drill their way through our
last wild places, burn more dirty coal, build a new generation of risky nuclear power plants and dramatically increase air pollution that would sicken the vulnerable -- especially children and seniors -- for decades to come.

It would establish oil and gas development as the dominant use of our federal public lands, open national parks to the construction of electricity
transmission lines, exempt polluters from core provisions of our clean air and water laws and waive liability for the producers of the toxic gasoline additive MTBE -- even though it has contaminated at least 1,500 public water supplies in all 50 American states.

You'd be hard-pressed to come up with a more backward-looking, wasteful and self-defeating energy "plan" than this one. At a time when the federal deficit is soaring and we're going to war in the Persian Gulf oilfields, the White House wants to stick us with the tab for prolonging our destructive dependence on fossil fuels, foreign oil and dangerous nuclear technology.

This is not a national energy policy. This is corporate welfare, pure and
simple. Estimates of the bill's corporate tax breaks range from $23 billion to well over $100 billion with loan guarantees included. No surprise there. Big energy companies cooked up this raid on the federal treasury during hundreds of secret meetings with Vice President Cheney's energy task force and their allies on Capitol Hill.

It's one thing to gouge taxpayers. But to claim this rip-off is in the national
interest, as the White House would have us believe, is a slap in the face to
every working American.

Poll after poll shows that the vast majority of voters -- of both parties --
understand that we simply must reduce our out-of-control appetite for fossil fuels if we ever are to secure energy independence. That means turning American rooftops into the Persian Gulf of solar energy. It means producing cars that get 40 miles per gallon. It means constructing efficient buildings that use half the energy of the average American office without sacrificing comfort.

Making this transformation to a super-efficient, low-pollution economy would save consumers upwards of a trillion dollars, spare our last wild places from destruction, improve our health, slow global warming and reduce our dependence on undemocratic regimes overseas. It's a no-brainer to anyone living outside the White House.

But unless millions of Americans speak out right now, the enactment of the
president's energy bill will doom us to an apocalyptic future of blighted
wilderness, poisonous air pollution, devastating climate change and endless
wars over fossil fuels.

Please make your voice heard. Go to
http://www.savebiogems.org/takeaction.asp?src=RR0401
and tell your senators to obey the will of the American people, *not* the
dictates of giant energy corporations! Call on Congress to create a sustainable and affordable energy path.

And please be sure to forward this message to at least four other people.
Believe me, millions of Americans are just waiting for a simple way to stop
this madness and lend their support to a sane and hopeful energy future.

Sincerely yours,

Robert Redford
Board of Trustees
Natural Resources Defense Council

. . .

BioGems: Saving Endangered Wild Places
A project of the Natural Resources Defense Council
http://www.savebiogems.org

Note: We appreciate the opportunity to communicate with you and other NRDC BioGems Defenders, but if you would prefer not to receive BioGems updates or hear from BioGems activists in the field, you can send an email message to biogemsdefenders@savebiogems.org with "Please remove my name" in the subject line.

**CingularDuality** · 01-23-2004, 06:21 AM

I don't think I disagree with Mr. Redford, but, just like with NRA letters of ten years ago (thank gawd they've smartened up a bit...), I would be driven away from supporting this organization based solely on the sensationalistic language that was included in this plea for help...

jex · 01-23-2004, 06:43 AM

Holy cow what time do you get up!! It must be 05:30 there at least lol.

Yeah I lnow what you mean, that really does nothing for me either. The thing is though that people often need things sensationalised to get them to do something, or to get the message across.

Now I don't care whats in the words. For me it doesn't matter what style somebody writes in as long as they stick to fact and truth, which I hope this letter contains.

Either way if you do nothing the bigger the chance the bill has of going through and the more ripped off you guys will be. The world will be a more polluted place with more species endangered and more animals dying from pollution every year. At least this way you've done something about it.

Thanks,

Jex.

**CingularDuality** · 01-23-2004, 06:56 AM

Hehe, I work pretty long days... I've got lots of work to do...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jex

Now I don't care whats in the words. For me it doesn't matter what style somebody writes in as long as they stick to fact and truth, which I hope this letter contains.

Quote:

the enactment of the
president's energy bill will doom us to an apocalyptic future of blighted
wilderness, poisonous air pollution, devastating climate change and endless
wars over fossil fuels.

Apocalyptic future?

jex · 01-23-2004, 07:22 AM

We already have all that. It'll just get worse. I see no lies there.

**DudeMan** · 01-23-2004, 10:06 AM

i have to say jex i agree with cingular. these guys are dramatising it more than the Sun newspaper i read the article through and to be honest didnt see any real evidence or words from the bill to support the argument.

as for your suggestion that they need to sensationalize it to get their message across... bad way to look at pressure groups in my opinion.

civil servents generally like to look at figures shown in respectable pressure groups in this country to gage the public interest.. this group looks like a media based company desigend to advertise them more thasn the bill... email this to your freinds... can i ask do you pay money fore a membership?

i dont want to bad mouth the cause however, and i did not agree with bush giving up on the kiyoto treaty..... but given no evidence apart from word of mouth by the author i would be reluctant to act. i dont know if i agree with him or not because i cant be sure he is telling the truth on all matters.

i fear others will veiw it the same way.

Wintermute · 01-23-2004, 11:13 AM

Bad letter, good cause. Email your senator anyway.

"This bill may be the worst piece of legislation you and I will see in our
lifetimes."

Farm subsedies are much, much worse. I heard on the news last night that HALF of the EU's budget goes on farm subsedies, and the EU is a massive organisation that does a lot of work. This is another thread though.

jex · 01-23-2004, 11:15 AM

If you can point out any inconsistancies please do. Because it uses sensationalist words does not mean it is incorrect but by all means judge this book by it's cover.

I don't agree with sensationalism, I already said that but then I speak for myself and not the masses. The majority of people rarely think for themselves and sensationalism works to get them whipped up and get them round. Therefore if it is the only tool that works then use it - I see nothing wrong with that if we live in a world of uneducated neophytes.

No I do not pay a membership.

Perhaps you'd rather this sort of thing wasn't posted? Let's face, very few people here think about their environment and it's not that importtant to them. That's fine, we each have different pressures in life but sometimes one needs to look outside rather than in. I hope that attitude changes, but at present, that is the way the world currently is.

Forget about the words dude they're not important. It's a bit like listening to a politician spout his emotional rhetoric to the people and they love him for it. Then he's off screwing you over. Words don't make men, actions do. Does it really matter how it is written, as long as it is right?

Thanks,

J.

**USN_Squid** · 01-23-2004, 01:47 PM

Jex said:
.....as long as they stick to fact and truth, which I hope this letter contains.

Who can disagree with saving our planet? But it's the emotional appeal which enviromentalists capitalize on that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Very scary stuff coming out of that letter, but I would just ask you to read from boths sides of the issue (especially since you are appealing for us to vote against this thing, yet admit you're not sure of the facts).

These links below are worth a look. Since we've heard from one side, here's the other:

http://bigjweb.com/artman/publish/article_1050.shtml
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25512
http://www.sitewave.net/news/
http://reason.com/0202/cr.rb.debunking.shtml

**DudeMan** · 01-24-2004, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jex

If you can point out any inconsistancies please do. Because it uses sensationalist words does not mean it is incorrect but by all means judge this book by it's cover.

I don't agree with sensationalism, I already said that but then I speak for myself and not the masses. The majority of people rarely think for themselves and sensationalism works to get them whipped up and get them round. Therefore if it is the only tool that works then use it - I see nothing wrong with that if we live in a world of uneducated neophytes.

No I do not pay a membership.

Perhaps you'd rather this sort of thing wasn't posted? Let's face, very few people here think about their environment and it's not that importtant to them. That's fine, we each have different pressures in life but sometimes one needs to look outside rather than in. I hope that attitude changes, but at present, that is the way the world currently is.

Forget about the words dude they're not important. It's a bit like listening to a politician spout his emotional rhetoric to the people and they love him for it. Then he's off screwing you over. Words don't make men, actions do. Does it really matter how it is written, as long as it is right?

Thanks,

J.

jex you could take thew post to have the posotive critisisms it has or do what you did and act agressivly.

it is a well known fact that the sensationalising of an article is designed to hide any otrher logical argument against what the author is trying to say.

and i never once said it was incorrect but it does not give the reader a chance to make a full and informed decision therefore i urge any person viewing this thread to not take that article seriously. and to find out what the bill entails before making the decision.

the article is incorrect, maybe not in content but deffinatly in structure, there is always two sides to an argument and to have an informed decision both sides of that argument have to be looked at. what economic benefits does this bill have..

what does the bill actually do to hurt wieghed against what it does to help

that is what this article should have and if there is a valid argument against then people can act on that.

i submit that this email is dangerous, and campaigns like it are dangerous.

**DudeMan** · 01-24-2004, 12:24 AM

lets also not forget that the media loves to concentrate on the distruction of the earth by human means. however what you do not hear in the news is how the same amount if not more scientists are comming to the conclusion that infact global warming is a natural cycle, and is not a by product of carbon and combustion.

a famoous scientist arthur c clark argues that the earth has a 1000 year wabble...

but no infact popular media opinionm as usual only considers thet it is mans fault.... oooooh bad man....

**DudeMan** · 01-24-2004, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Therefore if it is the only tool that works then use it - I see nothing wrong with that if we live in a world of uneducated neophytes.

what really scares me is that you seriously dont see a problem with that.. yes we do libve in a world like that. to which to answer is not encouragement to go on. this kind of thinking is how hitler suceeded.

we need to educate our people and not just perform clown acts to satisfy their simple minds.. this view infact is so patronisiing to a large proportion of society.. really bad form.

Quote:

Let's face, very few people here think about their environment and it's not that importtant to them. That's fine, we each have different pressures in life but sometimes one needs to look outside rather than in. I hope that attitude changes, but at present, that is the way the world currently is.

jex that is wholy unfair, because i do not agree with this does not mean i dont care aboput hte enviroment.

aftyer alot of reading on the subject no i dont think that fuel and other forms of fossil fuels are causing global warming. the earth is entering another iceage. caused but the earth heating the ice caps and them moveing. they will melt then re freeze. throwing this world into another ice age.

i would also like to add thet nuclea fuel is not harmufl to the enviroment. the waste product is harmful to humans. but not the enviroment.
an effective way of disposing the waste. apart from bombing other contriues with it is needed but to date it is the most efficient and enviromentally freindly fuel source. and therefore i am not against that.

infact itr is lack of education on nuclea fuel that makes people think disaster. when infact it is not ...

Quote:

Does it really matter how it is written, as long as it is right

absolutly. if the content is right then it doesnt need to be blown out of all proportion because the truthful facts are a compelling enough argument and therefore do not need all the apocolyptic crap as a side dish.

i do feel the author could show bias but not on such a blaitant level. to me on a matter of PRINCIPAL i will not read anything by people who enforce their idaes by blinding the reader to other possibilities...

this is why i do not read The Sun.

01-23-2004, 06:09 AM	#1 (permalink)
jex Join Date: May 2003 Location: United Kingdom Age: 37 Posts: 3,407	Vote against the energy bill As a member of NRDC I received this email today. Since I don't live in the US I cannot email congress to oppose this bill, I'm hoping perhaps someone can do so in my place. Many thanks, Jex. Dear NRDC BioGems Defender, Over the next few weeks, President Bush and his congressional allies will try once again to ram their disastrous energy bill through the U.S. Senate. They fell only two votes short in November and they've vowed to make passage of the bill their top priority now that Congress has returned from recess. This bill may be the worst piece of legislation you and I will see in our lifetimes. It would pick your pocket, despoil your natural heritage, endanger your family's health and smother your hope for a more secure energy future. We ignore this bill at our own peril. Let me tell you our simple plan for thwarting this shameless attack on our environment and pocketbooks. If millions of Americans each took one minute to protest this bill, it would cause every senator who is tempted to vote for it to think twice about doing so. You can make this happen within the next few hours by doing two things: First, go to http://www.savebiogems.org/takeaction.asp?src=RR0401 and send your two senators an email or fax, telling them to vote against this pro-polluter energy bill. Then, forward my email to at least four of your friends, family members or colleagues. I am emailing this message to 500,000 BioGems Defenders and other NRDC activists. If each one forwards this message to just four more people, we will generate a national tidal wave of opposition before this day is over. And that won't be a moment too soon. This disgraceful bill would pick our pockets to hand out billions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies to the oil, coal and nuclear industries. That's their long-awaited reward for making big-time contributions to the Bush-Cheney campaign. They profit while the rest of us pay the price -- in tax dollars and environmental degradation. This bill gives the energy giants a free pass to drill their way through our last wild places, burn more dirty coal, build a new generation of risky nuclear power plants and dramatically increase air pollution that would sicken the vulnerable -- especially children and seniors -- for decades to come. It would establish oil and gas development as the dominant use of our federal public lands, open national parks to the construction of electricity transmission lines, exempt polluters from core provisions of our clean air and water laws and waive liability for the producers of the toxic gasoline additive MTBE -- even though it has contaminated at least 1,500 public water supplies in all 50 American states. You'd be hard-pressed to come up with a more backward-looking, wasteful and self-defeating energy "plan" than this one. At a time when the federal deficit is soaring and we're going to war in the Persian Gulf oilfields, the White House wants to stick us with the tab for prolonging our destructive dependence on fossil fuels, foreign oil and dangerous nuclear technology. This is not a national energy policy. This is corporate welfare, pure and simple. Estimates of the bill's corporate tax breaks range from $23 billion to well over $100 billion with loan guarantees included. No surprise there. Big energy companies cooked up this raid on the federal treasury during hundreds of secret meetings with Vice President Cheney's energy task force and their allies on Capitol Hill. It's one thing to gouge taxpayers. But to claim this rip-off is in the national interest, as the White House would have us believe, is a slap in the face to every working American. Poll after poll shows that the vast majority of voters -- of both parties -- understand that we simply must reduce our out-of-control appetite for fossil fuels if we ever are to secure energy independence. That means turning American rooftops into the Persian Gulf of solar energy. It means producing cars that get 40 miles per gallon. It means constructing efficient buildings that use half the energy of the average American office without sacrificing comfort. Making this transformation to a super-efficient, low-pollution economy would save consumers upwards of a trillion dollars, spare our last wild places from destruction, improve our health, slow global warming and reduce our dependence on undemocratic regimes overseas. It's a no-brainer to anyone living outside the White House. But unless millions of Americans speak out right now, the enactment of the president's energy bill will doom us to an apocalyptic future of blighted wilderness, poisonous air pollution, devastating climate change and endless wars over fossil fuels. Please make your voice heard. Go to http://www.savebiogems.org/takeaction.asp?src=RR0401 and tell your senators to obey the will of the American people, not the dictates of giant energy corporations! Call on Congress to create a sustainable and affordable energy path. And please be sure to forward this message to at least four other people. Believe me, millions of Americans are just waiting for a simple way to stop this madness and lend their support to a sane and hopeful energy future. Sincerely yours, Robert Redford Board of Trustees Natural Resources Defense Council . . . BioGems: Saving Endangered Wild Places A project of the Natural Resources Defense Council http://www.savebiogems.org Note: We appreciate the opportunity to communicate with you and other NRDC BioGems Defenders, but if you would prefer not to receive BioGems updates or hear from BioGems activists in the field, you can send an email message to biogemsdefenders@savebiogems.org with "Please remove my name" in the subject line.

01-23-2004, 06:21 AM	#2 (permalink)
CingularDuality Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, USA Age: 33 Posts: 17,078	I don't think I disagree with Mr. Redford, but, just like with NRA letters of ten years ago (thank gawd they've smartened up a bit...), I would be driven away from supporting this organization based solely on the sensationalistic language that was included in this plea for help... __________________ Become a supporting member! -- Shop at the Tactical Market! Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage." TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

01-23-2004, 06:43 AM	#3 (permalink)
jex Join Date: May 2003 Location: United Kingdom Age: 37 Posts: 3,407	Holy cow what time do you get up!! It must be 05:30 there at least lol. Yeah I lnow what you mean, that really does nothing for me either. The thing is though that people often need things sensationalised to get them to do something, or to get the message across. Now I don't care whats in the words. For me it doesn't matter what style somebody writes in as long as they stick to fact and truth, which I hope this letter contains. Either way if you do nothing the bigger the chance the bill has of going through and the more ripped off you guys will be. The world will be a more polluted place with more species endangered and more animals dying from pollution every year. At least this way you've done something about it. Thanks, Jex. __________________ Jex

01-23-2004, 07:22 AM	#5 (permalink)
jex Join Date: May 2003 Location: United Kingdom Age: 37 Posts: 3,407	We already have all that. It'll just get worse. I see no lies there. __________________ Jex

01-23-2004, 10:06 AM	#6 (permalink)
DudeMan Join Date: May 2003 Location: london England Age: 22 Posts: 3,258	i have to say jex i agree with cingular. these guys are dramatising it more than the Sun newspaper i read the article through and to be honest didnt see any real evidence or words from the bill to support the argument. as for your suggestion that they need to sensationalize it to get their message across... bad way to look at pressure groups in my opinion. civil servents generally like to look at figures shown in respectable pressure groups in this country to gage the public interest.. this group looks like a media based company desigend to advertise them more thasn the bill... email this to your freinds... can i ask do you pay money fore a membership? i dont want to bad mouth the cause however, and i did not agree with bush giving up on the kiyoto treaty..... but given no evidence apart from word of mouth by the author i would be reluctant to act. i dont know if i agree with him or not because i cant be sure he is telling the truth on all matters. i fear others will veiw it the same way. __________________ The Queen "Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life," *Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community* TheFeniX "Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

01-23-2004, 11:13 AM	#7 (permalink)
Wintermute Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Age: 24 Posts: 1,166	Bad letter, good cause. Email your senator anyway. "This bill may be the worst piece of legislation you and I will see in our lifetimes." Farm subsedies are much, much worse. I heard on the news last night that HALF of the EU's budget goes on farm subsedies, and the EU is a massive organisation that does a lot of work. This is another thread though. __________________ Wintermute Play EVE online. It's like being an accounting addict in space. www.MakePovertyHistory.com

01-23-2004, 11:15 AM	#8 (permalink)
jex Join Date: May 2003 Location: United Kingdom Age: 37 Posts: 3,407	If you can point out any inconsistancies please do. Because it uses sensationalist words does not mean it is incorrect but by all means judge this book by it's cover. I don't agree with sensationalism, I already said that but then I speak for myself and not the masses. The majority of people rarely think for themselves and sensationalism works to get them whipped up and get them round. Therefore if it is the only tool that works then use it - I see nothing wrong with that if we live in a world of uneducated neophytes. No I do not pay a membership. Perhaps you'd rather this sort of thing wasn't posted? Let's face, very few people here think about their environment and it's not that importtant to them. That's fine, we each have different pressures in life but sometimes one needs to look outside rather than in. I hope that attitude changes, but at present, that is the way the world currently is. Forget about the words dude they're not important. It's a bit like listening to a politician spout his emotional rhetoric to the people and they love him for it. Then he's off screwing you over. Words don't make men, actions do. Does it really matter how it is written, as long as it is right? Thanks, J.

01-23-2004, 01:47 PM	#9 (permalink)
USN_Squid Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Denver Age: 38 Posts: 3,168	Jex said: *.....as long as they stick to fact and truth, which I hope* this letter contains.** Who can disagree with saving our planet? But it's the emotional appeal which enviromentalists capitalize on that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Very scary stuff coming out of that letter, but I would just ask you to read from boths sides of the issue (especially since you are appealing for us to vote against this thing, yet admit you're not sure of the facts). These links below are worth a look. Since we've heard from one side, here's the other: http://bigjweb.com/artman/publish/article_1050.shtml http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25512 http://www.sitewave.net/news/ http://reason.com/0202/cr.rb.debunking.shtml

01-24-2004, 12:24 AM	#11 (permalink)
DudeMan Join Date: May 2003 Location: london England Age: 22 Posts: 3,258	lets also not forget that the media loves to concentrate on the distruction of the earth by human means. however what you do not hear in the news is how the same amount if not more scientists are comming to the conclusion that infact global warming is a natural cycle, and is not a by product of carbon and combustion. a famoous scientist arthur c clark argues that the earth has a 1000 year wabble... but no infact popular media opinionm as usual only considers thet it is mans fault.... oooooh bad man.... __________________ The Queen "Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life," *Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community* TheFeniX "Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

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