Pokerface

You can in fact be born Jewish; it's a cultural and physical heritage as much as a religious one. The official defining factor of whether or not you are born Jewish is "your mother is Jewish.".

Yes, I understand that converts mess up the thought process on this.

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TheFeniX

It still doesn't change the fact that Hitler was in fact not Jewish. Unless he was a master of self-hate with quotes like: from Mein Kampf.

Not to mention: I still assert that you cannot be born into a lifestyle choice. Someone may raise you that way, but you are under no obligation choose that lifestyle.

You can claim "being Jewish" as either some form of race or as a religios belief: not both. In that instance they would be mutally exclusive. It's like claiming an Indian had to be Hindu.

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DudeMan

i wasn't talking about turkey for the most part, i just have to say, that the implications of turkey joining are not as severe as some are portraying. in the end its a financial agreement more than anything,

i personally do not want turkey to join as i didnt want the former russian states to join, why? because they are alot poorer than the rest of europe and the benefits of joining were entirely one way,

i refuse on the other hand to say that i will deny people the right to join this euopean union just because they have a different belief system from our own, i dont agree with that, to even be considered turkey has had to have reformed many of its outdated laws, conform to the european human rights, if they can do all of this then just because they happen to be muslim is not a ood enough argument.

it seems to me that if Turkey did join the EU it is not my country that will change (or be islamasized as previously said) but quite the opposite, Turkey has had to change its laws, its society and its justice system to even be considered.

as i say i dont want them to join for economic reasons but to say (as the pope has) he does not support it because they are muslim and he does not want to see europe "islamasized" is just plain iggnorant IMO.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

DudeMan

you may choose to deny the existance of islamaphobia, but it does exist, i do not see a muslim invasion of my culture any more than i dont dance around fires contacting ghosts because of the large african poplation of my country. it seems easy to imagine a plot against our way of life by terrorists, and in many aspecs you are correct to be worried about that. but when you have an entire country which has done alot in the way of modernising their country, and bring their country into our way of life, and merely (as the pope seems to have done) accuse them of tring to "islamify" (christ these questionable terms are comming out in force now) our society is IMO short sighted,

in all our efforts in the middle east we try to instll democracy and stability into these extremist Muslim states, yet when we are confronted with a democratic, modern islamic country, we treat it the same as any other islamic country.
should we be careful? Absolutly, Should we still consider their application? Absolutly.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

DudeMan

hitlers grandparents (or just indeed his grandmother) was jewish i dont believe his parents were,

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

9 v

Even if we don't believe that Islam is growing at an incredible rate, the Muslims do;

http://www.islamicweb.com/begin/results.htm

Not sure about the Australia figure of 257.01% though. That seems rather high.

9 v

i've read that somewhere. Although as i recall his father left when he was very young and he was brought up by his mother alone.

As i don't believe any child is born evil, i have always longed to know what it was in Adolf's childhood that turned him into the monster he became. Maybe there was some psychotic abuse dished out by his grandparents, and/or some jewish kids at Die Schule.

TheFeniX

You don't need a real reason to hate a group of people. Only that they are different than you.

The Jewish community made a perfect scapegoat in the ruins of Germany before WWII. The country was poor and destitute after WWI. Many Jewish families were riding out the war well. For the most part, their people weren't hit as hard by the massive depression. Hitler turned their relative success and people's general animosity towards Jews against them.

I honestly don't believe Hitler actually hated Jewish people, he just used ignorance and hatred that other people had to achieve his goals.

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DudeMan

wow no ill disagree with yu there, i dont think you would personally go to such extremes against people you didnt hate. he resented the Jewish people at first but that deffinatly grew into a deep racial hatred, hitlers hatred for the jews started long before he became leader of the nazi party, some have traced it back to his days working by painting scenery and people in austria. but the scapegoat stuff was really why the rest of germany accpeted him.

its interesting what you say about differences, mirror those exact sentiments with the popes sensationalised claims if islamifying, and how islam represents a degrading western culture, then look at what the nazis said about the jews, its strikingly similar...

granted on the other hand the jews didnt go around beheading people and blowing **** up...

__________________


The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

DudeMan

I read that it was his father who was brutal, hitler adored his mother and what broke him apart was during his late teens early 20's his mother died. (i dont know for sure but it was before ww1) he hated his father, his father was abusive,

actually strangly i read one of the biggest turnig points in hitlers life was actually being rejected in his chosen profession. he applied at the top art college in austria and was refused, in which point he spent a while on the streets of austria painting for money.

then ww1 happened, and the man who became the leader of the nazis was formed ...

very very very very brief summary of what i read last summer...

__________________


The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

9 v

The French aside, i think you do.

Dirt013

Ok, first off the theory that Hitler had Jewish ancestry has been widely debunked. (I can provide references if need be.) His father was a very strict disciplinarian who showed his son very little in the way of affection...the man did die when Hitler was rather young, and he was raised by his mother, who he absolutely adored. The fist mention of a Jewish man that I can remember from Hitler's early days were of the Doctor who treated his mother for the cancer that was "eating her alive" in the final weeks of her life. Hitler thought well of the man, and AMAZINGLY enough, protected him from the fate most Jews suffered during that time period. Hitler's hatred of the Jews almost certainly originates from his time in Vienna prior to the war. He was destitute and living in and out of work houses....he read voraciously at the time, and many of his later theories on "race" and politics began to formulate at this time. Hitler served with distinction during WW I as a runner....a rather dangerous position...for which he was awarded the Iron Cross 1st class. Whatever else this Evil wretch of a man may have been, he was, beyond a doubt, a patriot. He Believed in the cause...he Fought and Suffered for the cause, and he was stabbed in the back by the "November Criminals" and communists who signed the Treaty of Versailles. (<=In His opinion) He saw international communism as the work of "the Jews" [Marx's an Engel's] to destroy the Aryan race...wow this will take forever. Short version: The Nazi Party did not view Judaism as a Religion...they viewed the Jewish people as a separate race. It had nothing to do with Religious beliefs. Hitler was also NOT a Christian or Catholic for that matter. Sure he invoked God like most politicians do to gain a desired result...his actions, however, more than prove that he was not a follower of Christ. He was also not overly kind to the Catholics when he came to power, but he didn't go to great lengths persecute them either.

Strangely enough today's Hitler's B-Day....how did this discussion come up? Oh yeah, the new German Pope. Guess what guys....EVERYONE was in the Hitler Youth then...it's not like the Boy Scouts...it was compulsory.

TheFeniX

A man who accepts Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior is in fact a Christian: no questions asked. What "actions" disbared him from being considered one? The mass slaughters? Please.... the Catholic church has hitler beat alone. Start throwing in sactioned killings by other Christian denominations: and our Nazi boy starts looking like a saint.

And if he wasn't a Christian, then answer me this: why is it such a viewable and vehement person in his belief, one who praises God in almost all of his speechs, never excommunicated by the church?

I mean, if he's not a Christian, you'd think they'd do something about it. The answer is easy: Christians just don't want to admit even their followers can be as violent as the Muslims they bash on every day.

Religious fanatacism is bad no matter what religion you are.... unless you're Buddhist. All those poor bastards do is light themselves on fire.

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CingularDuality

Proof that Marheine's Law is true: The proper and timely application of a back handed slap will/would have solved any problem...

If his mum had slapped him silly the first time he made a rude comment about "those damn jews", perhaps WWII and the holocaust never would have happened.

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DudeMan

i still believe he was a christian, i agree withmost of what you said and it was condenced in my earlier post, however, to my knowledge and through my studies, he was christian, although i wouldnt say that was an acctive ingridient in the holocaust.

as for everyone had too.... true but the pope is supposed to speak for god, many other people in germany riskedd their life because they didnt agree, and they never became pope.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"