DudeMan

somehow i dont think your prayers have been answered, "The Enforcer" Jhon Pauls right hand man who shared the traditionalist popes views has taken over.

story on new pope...

he was also part of the hitler youth (aparantly he didnt like it though...hmmmmm)

it seems he shares John Pauls views on abortion women priests ect ect ect... and even sacked liberal priests (accordign to the news in the background im listening to)

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

Wyzcrak

This is actually an abbreviation of 'et cetera', so the 't' comes before the 'c'.

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Root

Hitler youth makes pope huh?

My dad was a devout catholic and he was *so* sure cardinal cormac o'conner would've been made pope this time round. My dad wasn't the sort of person who would listen when you tried telling him how bad that would be for the catholic church. When he was a bishop he covered up an incident involving a priest and one or more young boys.

And people wonder why I have no time for any religion whatsoever.

Root

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DudeMan

this whole issue come up, and this is all you can come up with,

hmmmm

what a waste of time, anyone else have anything useful to say, i dont really care either which way, i was rooting for the black guy to win, it seems christianity is spreading there faster than anywhere else, and given that many of the policies under john paul were actually not helping the aids crisis in africa, i saw oppotunity for change.

unless wyz you feel a need for more rubbish,

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

Tempus

Anti-gay, anti-contraception, anti-women.. This is progress?

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DudeMan

yeah on this one im with Karl Marx, "the opium of the masses" (but not on the communist sociallist thing,....) only on religion.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

DudeMan

well in they eyes of all the old guys who just chose him.... yes i guess. IMO the church needs women priests, they are having enough trouble finding young replacments for the aging stock

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

TheFeniX

They had to stand up for them once they realized that the Allies were going to win the war and not the Axis. Who cares that millions of Jews lost their lives under the then Pope's blessing? No one likes those filthy Jews anyways.....

Catholics for Freedom!™ - Blacks, Jews, Aethiests, and Gays need not apply.

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DudeMan

thats not exaclty fair of all catholics, not many people knew what the Nazis were doing till they found the concentration camps. so you cant really appy the support of the pope to the slaughter of those people. they may not have opposed the ill treatment and persecution in the early years which is wrong, but the final solution wasnt exactly public knowledge....

but you have a oint about athiests gays blacks etc, another reason why it might have been nice for the african candidate. (although secretly i dont think he stood a snowballs chance in hell)

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

TheFeniX

The Pope did. He and Hitler had many communications together and he never once asked hitler to stop. In fact, although the evidence is sketchy because the church is always loath to admit this, he made hints that the persecution of the Jews was "God's will."

It wasn't until they realized that the world was not going to be German speaking in the following years that the Pope finally made a real public stand and condemned the actions of the Nazis.

The Pope should at least have the backbone to take a solid stand on his bigotry.

Therein lies the problem with Catholosism: the Pope speaks for God and his followers. Much like the harsh sentiments the world applies to all Americans because of Bush. The difference is that I don't have to agree with everything our bigoted leader believes to be an American.

Catholics either need to accept the Pope's word as God's law, or pull a Martin Luther. I didn't stop being a Christian because of the majority of tolerant Christians. I stopped following that particular God because the mean-spirited and hateful minority of them push almost all the "policies" of that particular religion.

I can't be a part of a religion in which all of the leaders out-right condemn everyone not exactly like them and cover up pedophilia among their lower ranks. It reminds me to much of Animal Farm, and no one is chopping me up for the beef.

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DudeMan

as for the arguments against religion, you already have me there, i am athiest, i would rather believe in the advance of science than believe in a holier than thou figure who is going to whoop my ass on judgement day, i have never been one for fairytales.

but i find it hard to accept the pope knew about killing the jews as hitler was... is there any evidence on this, or is it just a conspiracy type thing... not that i know for a fact it isnt true, i just find it hard to believe.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

TheFeniX

Evidence is sketchy for the reasons already posted, but you can find bits and pieces online. As always, I had a good article back in the day from a reputable source. Of course, now I can't find it.

Take into account a few things:
1. Hilter was an adamant Christian (once again, the Catholic Church tries to cover this up).
2. He conversed with the Pope numerous times.
3. After all his atrocities: he was never excomunicated from the church. Far from it.
4. Pius never took a hard stance either for or against Hitler in public up until we started kicking Nazi butt.

Google lists a bunch of stuff I can't read through at the moment.
Try here.

Even if the Pope didn't come out and say it: he didn't give a damn if those Jews died horrible deaths in camps. This article paints a better picture. Saved them from dying of old age maybe.

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DudeMan

yeah i know hitler was a christian, but i dont know there is too much conspiracy for me to accept this, i dnt suppoes we willl ever know for sure, i certainly wouldnt put it past the vatican.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

Root

I thought there was historical evidence to show hitler was a jew? It wouldn't surprise me considering this half sized dark haired guy definied perfect as tall and blonde.

The catholic church has one of the best spy networks in the world. Their priests are everywhere, but their advantage is that most people don't think of priests as spies, not to mention no one else uses ancient latin anymore - the perfect encrypt. Also lots of people forget that *any* information is intel if you know what to do with it. Certainly it's unthinkable that catholic priests in nazi germany didn't let the vatican know what was going on. Ok so they didn't have the internet, but people still used to manage to communicate ya know.

Root

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TheFeniX

Good read
Another

Considering the animosity he had towrds Jews even early on in life, it's doubtful he's a convert. And if you mean "Jewish by blood," I've never fully understood how someone could be born into a religion. It's not like a race or gender.

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