By request.....

><JohnGalt>< · 04-23-2005, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Yeah, I like war posters. I find it very interesting that there was a time (before I was born) when the people of our nation actually supported our troops whole-heartedly and that the government would hire such talented artists to produce posters supporting the war effort.

Hmmm, this could make an interesting Sandbox discussion...

No kidding, the distain some American citizens have for not only our military but also our country makes me sick to my stomach. We are a most generous and tolerant nation. The only reason we have to police the word is because no one else will do it.

**CingularDuality** · 04-23-2005, 06:57 PM

This is a great exhibit of WWII war posters: Powers of Persuasion

Another good site: A Summons to Comradeship

Google will find you tons more, but they start to duplicate...

**CingularDuality** · 04-23-2005, 07:20 PM

And one of my favorites:

**Tempus** · 04-23-2005, 07:28 PM

Well, I may not always support our policies, but I always support our troops. They have an extremely dangerous job that we all take for granted. I can never look down on them. But don't get me started on whether or not they should always be used the way they are in the first place.

**CingularDuality** · 04-23-2005, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempus

Well, I may not always support our policies, but I always support our troops. They have an extremely dangerous job that we all take for granted. I can never look down on them. But don't get me started on whether or not they should always be used the way they are in the first place.

Right, well, that's the thing... The time to protest is before the decision is made to go to war. Once our elected leaders decide that the time has come, it's time to stop spitting on soldiers and start supporting them. You may understand that, but it's evident that our society seems to have forgotten history...

**asch** · 04-23-2005, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempus

Well, I may not always support our policies, but I always support our troops. They have an extremely dangerous job that we all take for granted. I can never look down on them. But don't get me started on whether or not they should always be used the way they are in the first place.

I think that's part of what people have lost sight of. They think that by supporting our troops, you are supporting the decisions made. People are out for themselves these days and take no pride or responsibility.

**Pokerface** · 04-24-2005, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asch

I think that's part of what people have lost sight of. They think that by supporting our troops, you are supporting the decisions made. People are out for themselves these days and take no pride or responsibility.

Actually, I would say the converse of that is true: People (at least, people I know) seem to think that by not supporting the decisions made, you somehow lack in the "support the troops" department.

**USN_Squid** · 04-24-2005, 03:08 AM

Okay, I'll play the Devil's advocate. How can you support the troops, but not their mission. If you wish for the mission to fail, you are hoping for defeat for the troops. That's not support in my book.

Obviously, you wish the troops wouldn't die. Fine. You disagree with the decision to put the troops where they are. Fine. But interjecting any kind of interference after the decision has been made is an effort against the swift, safe completion of the troops mission. That is not support.

Edit:
On topic, I like this one:
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/i...00/h63193a.jpg

All kidding aside, you gotta love some kidding:
http://www.code7r.org/Bintoons/image...st_photo02.gif

**Pokerface** · 04-24-2005, 11:49 AM

If by "interference" you mean "wanting to get them back home as quickly as possible for thier OWN sakes", then yes, I'm all for interfering.

We go hunting bad men, and once we find them, we end up staying for years trying to build a system of government from scratch, which is something that seemed to get tacked on to the initial "imminent threat" idea that got us over there in the first place. We depose bad man, find no threat: "well, now that we've removed the man from power, we OBVIOUSLY can't just leave..."

Every couple of days, I read about insurgents killing off a dozen or so people in some random attack, and generally there's an American list in there too. That's not my idea of coming home as quickly as possible.

**USN_Squid** · 04-24-2005, 03:38 PM

I agree that they should come home as soon as possible. But you can't just flick a switch and get them all on the next plane. What would it take to start the process of bringing them home? You have a large percentage of citizens and politicians that want the job done right. So, to abort the nation building and just bring them home would take months of very visible protesting and fighting in Congress. It would be a press orgy over a divided nation. All of this would lead to degraded morale and indecisive leadership in the military. That's a recipe for disaster in war fighting. That doesn't sound like support to me.

Remember, a HUGE majority of those troops you support and want to come home for "their own sake" WANT to be there and agree with both the cause and the course of action.

><JohnGalt>< · 04-24-2005, 04:29 PM

Remember Japan was occupied between 1945-52 in efforts to rebuild that nation and to avoid another government bent on pacific domination from taking power. Removing a government creates a power void and one must be careful who or what fills that void. What really burns me is that opposition to military action is more based on who the Commander in Chief is, not the actions of the military. It is no secret that I am conservative in nature, but I supported our military actions in Somalia (I did not support their withdrawal due to lack of conviction in the leadership at that time) and the Balkans (even thought I felt that the problem was more of a European one than an American one) which if you remember were unilateral decisions made by Mr. Clinton. None of those actions brought the kind vile demagoguery we are seeing today. It is the inconsistency of the nay sayers that really bothers me. Politically motivated defamers of this country make me want to puke.

**DudeMan** · 04-25-2005, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USN_Squid

I agree that they should come home as soon as possible. But you can't just flick a switch and get them all on the next plane. What would it take to start the process of bringing them home? You have a large percentage of citizens and politicians that want the job done right. So, to abort the nation building and just bring them home would take months of very visible protesting and fighting in Congress. It would be a press orgy over a divided nation. All of this would lead to degraded morale and indecisive leadership in the military. That's a recipe for disaster in war fighting. That doesn't sound like support to me.

Remember, a HUGE majority of those troops you support and want to come home for "their own sake" WANT to be there and agree with both the cause and the course of action.

It would also lead to mass confusion over this exactl issue, supporting the war and supporting the troops, and the troops who have done their country proud could expect the same welcome home many of them had from vietnam. a country divided, and a disgusting reception from those who cant support their troops because they believe the war was wrong.

at least this way there might be some chance all the troops will get a heros welcome like they should.

04-23-2005, 06:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
CingularDuality Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, USA Age: 33 Posts: 16,405	Re: By request..... This is a great exhibit of WWII war posters: Powers of Persuasion Another good site: A Summons to Comradeship Google will find you tons more, but they start to duplicate... __________________ Become a supporting member! -- Shop at the Tactical Market! Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage." TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

04-23-2005, 07:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
CingularDuality Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, USA Age: 33 Posts: 16,405	Re: By request..... And one of my favorites: __________________ Become a supporting member! -- Shop at the Tactical Market! Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage." TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

04-23-2005, 07:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
Tempus Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, FL Age: 38 Posts: 7,961	Re: By request..... Well, I may not always support our policies, but I always support our troops. They have an extremely dangerous job that we all take for granted. I can never look down on them. But don't get me started on whether or not they should always be used the way they are in the first place. __________________ Battlefield 2/2142 Game Officer Contact me with server/player/admin issues. -- Suits are what you wear when doing things you shouldn’t want to do anyway. FROM THE TACTICAL GAMER PRIMER. 3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

04-24-2005, 03:08 AM	#8 (permalink)
USN_Squid Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Denver Age: 38 Posts: 3,029	Re: By request..... Okay, I'll play the Devil's advocate. How can you support the troops, but not their mission. If you wish for the mission to fail, you are hoping for defeat for the troops. That's not support in my book. Obviously, you wish the troops wouldn't die. Fine. You disagree with the decision to put the troops where they are. Fine. But interjecting any kind of interference after the decision has been made is an effort against the swift, safe completion of the troops mission. That is not support. Edit: On topic, I like this one: http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/i...00/h63193a.jpg All kidding aside, you gotta love some kidding: http://www.code7r.org/Bintoons/image...st_photo02.gif __________________ New to TG? Start here! Ikariam.com:Alpha Capital; Firopolis isle of Rothatia 74:83 -Crystal Calamari isle of Lereos 75:82 -Sulfur Squidfor isle of Naehios 74:82 -Marble Squid Wine isle of Strypoios 75:83

04-24-2005, 11:49 AM	#9 (permalink)
Pokerface Join Date: May 2003 Location: MD, USA Age: 29 Posts: 5,722	Re: By request..... If by "interference" you mean "wanting to get them back home as quickly as possible for thier OWN sakes", then yes, I'm all for interfering. We go hunting bad men, and once we find them, we end up staying for years trying to build a system of government from scratch, which is something that seemed to get tacked on to the initial "imminent threat" idea that got us over there in the first place. We depose bad man, find no threat: "well, now that we've removed the man from power, we OBVIOUSLY can't just leave..." Every couple of days, I read about insurgents killing off a dozen or so people in some random attack, and generally there's an American list in there too. That's not my idea of coming home as quickly as possible. __________________ NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues. Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality. <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

04-24-2005, 03:38 PM	#10 (permalink)
USN_Squid Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Denver Age: 38 Posts: 3,029	Re: By request..... I agree that they should come home as soon as possible. But you can't just flick a switch and get them all on the next plane. What would it take to start the process of bringing them home? You have a large percentage of citizens and politicians that want the job done right. So, to abort the nation building and just bring them home would take months of very visible protesting and fighting in Congress. It would be a press orgy over a divided nation. All of this would lead to degraded morale and indecisive leadership in the military. That's a recipe for disaster in war fighting. That doesn't sound like support to me. Remember, a HUGE majority of those troops you support and want to come home for "their own sake" WANT to be there and agree with both the cause and the course of action. __________________ New to TG? Start here! Ikariam.com:Alpha Capital; Firopolis isle of Rothatia 74:83 -Crystal Calamari isle of Lereos 75:82 -Sulfur Squidfor isle of Naehios 74:82 -Marble Squid Wine isle of Strypoios 75:83

04-24-2005, 04:29 PM	#11 (permalink)
><JohnGalt>< Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 433	Re: By request..... Remember Japan was occupied between 1945-52 in efforts to rebuild that nation and to avoid another government bent on pacific domination from taking power. Removing a government creates a power void and one must be careful who or what fills that void. What really burns me is that opposition to military action is more based on who the Commander in Chief is, not the actions of the military. It is no secret that I am conservative in nature, but I supported our military actions in Somalia (I did not support their withdrawal due to lack of conviction in the leadership at that time) and the Balkans (even thought I felt that the problem was more of a European one than an American one) which if you remember were unilateral decisions made by Mr. Clinton. None of those actions brought the kind vile demagoguery we are seeing today. It is the inconsistency of the nay sayers that really bothers me. Politically motivated defamers of this country make me want to puke. __________________

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