CingularDuality

Israel's terrorist acts are publicly condemned by the United States. But our country continues to support that nation.

I'm with Ender on this one. I just don't get it... I mean, I understand that we're more culturally similar to Israel than with our very few other allies in the middle east, but I still don't see this as a good enough excuse.

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TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

DudeMan

no what i am saying is i can clearly differentiate between the use of the word terror and what israel is doing, when the military in Baghdad sees a group of guys plotting to kill soldiers they call in close air support and kill them, as wee see with the reports that came in from the wedding that was attacked. so why is it a terrorist act when israelis gunships go after essentially the same targets its called a terrorist act?

i clearly see a definition of the word terrorist as some group or individuals that target the innocent masses of the civillian population to make a political statement or gesture. thats what it means to me, thats why when a suicide bomber attacks a convoy of trrops i dont think that he is a terrorist, but a soldier of his cause. i dont like it and i would rather label him with something with less respect, but i think that somone who literally picks a busy day on a busy buss and bang... that is a terrorist.

when israel attack they generally unless mistakes are made dont just attack the civillian population, so i dont see it as terror.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

CingularDuality

Is everyone just going to ignore what happened in Hebron? Let's just pretend it didn't happen? Since they target terrorists most of the time, it's ok when they occasionally attack civilians intentionally every once in a while?

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TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

DudeMan

well did the Us intend to attack the wedding party on the boarder of iraq, no! but did it happen, yes,

its a shame and its always a tradgedy, and dont let me fool you into thinking i dont care about those involved. i do and it sickens me, but its like any other killing, intention is the key, with the benefit of hiensight it is easy to critisize. and unless the intention of the army or officials involved was hell bent on killing as many civillians as possible to make a point, then yes i am apalled and yes israels should be asked to be more careful but no in my opinion that is not terrorism.

it comes down to toe fact their goal was not the widesread killing of innocents, even though it was the unfortunate outcome this time.


"war is hell" Barbra Bush

civillian casualties is a product of conflict, the difference between a civilised world and a terrorist, is trying to keep civillian casualties to a minimum.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

CingularDuality

Interesting that you feel this way.

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TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

DudeMan

well am i alone, i dont think i am,

i think it only rational to assert some difference between targeting and accidentally killing civillians is all, and allocate the terroist to the targeting civillians

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

CingularDuality

ISRAEL HAS DONE THAT!!!! How many times do I have to mention it, and how many times are you going to keep ignoring it?

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TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

DudeMan

well no i dont agree with you ITS NOT THAT I AM IGNORING YOU, I just dont agree that israel have a policy of attacking

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

Fait_Maker

I find the Hebron massacre of 1929 in which Jews were killed. I can find the Goldstein massacre in which a doctor killed 29 palestentians. It was found he acted alone. If this isn't what you are talking about, could you post a link, since I'm ignorant of it and not ignoring it.

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CingularDuality

Hmmm... I'm not able to find an article on it, either... But we discussed it here when it happened. And the US and Britain both condemned Israel for her actions.

I guess I was thinking about the Rafah razing. Sorry for the confusion: http://www.somethingjewish.co.uk/art...mns_israel.htm

Why don't we ever hear these stories?: http://www.nogw.com/israeliatrocities.html

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TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

Fait_Maker

I really don't know what to say Cing. If Israel is as a state policy targetting children in their war, I think that is wrong. Yet even we have those soldiers who do what they want.

I realize the stories listed on that last site are mostly from reputable news centers <from what I looked at>. However, the website itself bothers me. It's a conspiracy theorist garden!

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luna

I agree that the site is very, shall we say, excited about the issues. There are many reputable sites out there that give the Palestinians a voice that I HIGHLY suggest you read. I was sent some literature recently that really opened my eyes on the issue. I can sincerely say that I don't believe our media has informed us effectively on the whole situation.

For recommendations, I suggest you ask H-Hour. He has been great with providing sincere information without the zealotry of sites such as above.

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CingularDuality

Yeah, I wasn't pleased with the attitude of that site, either... But it had a lot of information on it. My other link, the one that specifically talks about Rafah, is a Jewish website, though.

I've never thought much of the "zionist controlled media" conspiracy theory, but why is it that we don't often hear any of these stories? Why is it that you didn't know that the US government denounced Israel's terrorist acts? I heard about it on the radio one time, and that was it. Why are our Israel/Palestine reports so biased?

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TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

DudeMan

well i have read both ofthose sites, and i did so objectively, on face value it seems that the israelis were deffinatly the agressors,

however i did find upon further readng statements like this one littered all over many reports.

and again it strikes me that the attitude here is highly hypocritical when the issue is close to home. the witness was an 18 year old living in the camp, hmm i am going to be de3tecting a kind of one sided story,

and when the iraqi wedding party was bombed (i use this as its recent) well the US millitary were cut some slack (and rightly so) because the weapons smuggling was a current and active threat to the security and safety of their lives and the stability of the country.

yet it seems what the United states is not directly involved many opinions start to change,

i also noticed this comment which sums up on of my previous arguments.

my argument all along has been that it is not policy to kill civillians that the deaths of civillians is the by product of a terror hunt in urban nightmare conditions.

i have never pretended that israel is innocent of killing civvillians, just like the coalition killed civvilians with millions of dollars woth of computer equipment guided bombs that failed. its the policy of attacking innocents which i dont agree with and not one story i read convinced me that israel kills civillians with the intent on killing them directly

therefore i have more than a hard time calling them terrorist.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

Fait_Maker

I would agree IF it is true that these were isolated incidents of accidents or individuals gone wild. This is clearly not the case for Palestenians or insurgents in the Iraqi affair. Is it for Israel? I do not know.

Cing - I don't know why other than the media has long told us what they wanted to hear.

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