asch

I've never had a real strong opinion about performance enhancing drugs in sports one way or the other. I found this article that raises the question of "what is performance enhancing" and refers to LASIK surgery.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2116858/

Wintermute

It is definately wrong. What is the point of competing if you are pitting your scientists against the other guy's? Yes there are increasingly large gray areas, but that doesn't make EPO, steroids etc alright.

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Wintermute

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Root

Performance enhancing drugs are to sport, what aimbots and wallhacks are to CS.

I've heard the nonsense arguement in that article before, it's just a rehash (pardon the pun) of why should class A, B and C drugs be illegal and not alcohol. The alternatives to lasik are spectacles or contact lenses. You gonna rule them an unfair advantage?

Root

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asch

So is LASIK surgery "performance enhancing"?

I can understand the rules of standard bats and baseballs to use. That's how I would equate aimbots and wallhacks. You define the limits and tools of the game. But when it comes down to the individual, where does it stop?

Should there be a rule that you cannot have better than 20/20 vision?

What is your definition of performance enhancement?

Why is surgery to make your eyes 20/15 not considered performance enhancement?

Why are certain drugs that help your muscles heal faster and stronger considered performance enhancing?

TheFeniX

Why wouldn't they be more comparible to someone competeing with a PII 400 Mhz on dial-up, against someone with a 3 Ghz P4 running on cable?

Where do we draw the line at what consitutes a fair advantage or unfair advantage?

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DudeMan

i dont think that constitutes fair and unfair, having the latest equipment (in PC terms) is like keeping in shape (in sports terms)

so your comparison is more along the lines of a fat guy skinny guy doing the 100 meter sprint.

whereas root, i think hit the nail on the head with the cheats senario... you can buy a decent modem and a faster computer, and its just like training harder for a race...

now what about connecting to servers across the world, even with the same computer the guy closer to the server IE yanks get a better ping.... but we wont go there as you all seem to loose alot anyway.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
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TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

Root

I'd say thats the difference between spending 4 or 14 hours a day training.

Root

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asch

I don't see the relationship here. With baseball inparticular, the rules define the equipment (i.e. bats, balls) that can be used and within what confines they may be. The rules do not define what a player may do to themself. In CS, the game defines the limits in and of itself. Adding aimbots or wallhacks changes the rules of the game.

So, where do performance enhancing drugs change the rules of the game? They don't.

I don't follow the reasoning on this either.

LASIK isn't illegal or against the rules. The reason LASIK was mentioned is to raise the question "What is performance enhancing?" What makes it ok to use surgery for enhancement but not FDA approved drugs? Are the drugs doing something that it shouldn't within the rules of the sport?

And just to make sure I'm make this clear, when I refer to performance enhancing drugs, I'm referring to drugs that are legal by law.

I have yet to hear compelling reasons why FDA approved substances should not be allowed in sports.

asch

That's a good question. Should they be ruled unfair? If standard vision is 20/20 and a player has performance enhancing surgery to get to 20/15, is that fair? How is that different?

DudeMan

HMMM I DONT AGREE ASCH... in css you are a player given a gun and told to kill the enemy and protect the innocents. nowhere does it alloow you to change your character via artificial means. having an aimbot is not part of the makers wishes it is an artificial enhancer that allows you to beat everyone else purely because of this artificial enhancer..

and thats why medicines drugs or surgery should not be allowed, because the athlete relies on the drug rather than their ability, therefore you are not testing the athlete but the potence of the drug or effectivness of the surgery.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

TheFeniX

It's "performance enhancer," not "performance creator." If I took steroids, I would still be unable to compete with an olympic track runner.

It comes down to your definition of "unfair." Is it fair I was born with a slower metabolism, hence it's that much harder for me to get in shape?

The author is only trying to make people question what is fair. Is it fair that athletes can get eye-surgery that makes them better than normal, but taking steroids that makes them better than normal isn't?

This is not a black and white issue: that's what the author is trying to point out.

Although, it's mostly moot because Golf isn't a sport. It was created by Polo as an excuse for people to wear dorky pants and not feel like idiots.

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TheFeniX

Are you joking? His whole point was that people can swing a 20/10 eyesight advantage using lasik.

That means you can see at 20 feet clearly what a "normal" person could see clearly at 10 feet. Hence, your eyesight is sharper at both long and short ranges. It's equivalent to a shooting contest where one shooter gets a scope with double the magnification of the other.

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asch

In CSS, the game is the playing field and the in-game player is your equipment. The real-life player is both CSS and baseball represent themselves. That's why I see it different. Adding a wallhack is like corking a bat... not taking performance drugs.

Also one thing to note is that performance enhancement is a subjective term. The FDA approved drugs help your muscles heal faster. IS that performance enhancing?

Pokerface

One of the recent draftees didn't think so at the combine, but got called on it. He took some stuff to help an elbow injury heal faster so he could put up "normal" numbers in the combine... and now he'll be entering the NFL and the NFL's substance abuse program on the same day.

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Wintermute

Some people are saying "LASIK is allowed in sport so why shouldn't steroids be?" That is backwards. It should be "Steroids are not allowed in sport so why is LASIK allowed?" Maybe the sports governing bodies aren't doing their jobs properly...

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Wintermute

Play EVE online. It's like being an accounting addict in space.

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