Malcolm X or Martin Luther King JR?

Nightfire · 02-21-2004, 11:33 PM

Martin Luther King JR wanted to deal with the afro-american struggle by using peace, whereas Malcolm X followed the prinicipal of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth"

but once again, MLK countered Malcolm's strategy by saying "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth makes everyone toothless and blind"......therefore, MLK has my vote.

**Wolfie** · 02-22-2004, 10:34 PM

Wasn't Malcom X a little bit racist?

**DudeMan** · 02-23-2004, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

Wasn't Malcom X a little bit racist?

no wolfie you are taking the piss right. i know you know it

but god damn malcom x should have been imprisoned... militant racist is more the term.

Nightfire · 02-23-2004, 12:25 PM

yes, we know he's kinda racist too, but then again, the whites during those times the whites were pretty mean to minorities (even today, i feel nervous when going into a white church....not to mention LA cop abuse not too long ago and tormenting my mom for being asians

) but i'm glad it's changed, i love you all

**Wolfie** · 02-23-2004, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfire

yes, we know he's kinda racist too, but then again, the whites during those times the whites were pretty mean to minorities

Okay first off, let us not say this again. Why? Because this is stereotyping all whites during those times as being racist. Not everyone with fair skin during the 60s were racist. My father and mother are not racist and they are white. My grandfather and grandmother were not racist and they were white. Get my point?

Instead of saying "the whites", use something like, racist people. Because as much as people don't want to talk about it, there were/are racist people whose skin color happens to be black.

Second, MLK has my respect. A tremendous man that was pushing for social change that didn't resort to violence or racism to get his goal.

Malcom X was not a leader. He promoted violence as a means to combat social injustice but it wasn't targeted at those that did this injustice. He directed his followers to target "white America".

Nightfire · 02-23-2004, 01:01 PM

acutally, i know not all whites were racists, but once again, i'm reading a malcolm X book and since all i see in the book about "whites" (in this case, he think all whites)...so i kinda went in with the flow....sorry for the misunderstanding.

wolfie: i'm glad to hear that you guys are against racism.

**DudeMan** · 02-23-2004, 02:43 PM

well there you go, he refers to the white people as the whites. no respect and racism from the start.

malcom-x may very well have enthused alot of black people in the 60's but he did not gain the respect of the white community as a whole. as bad as that seems it is true. like with terroism, i willl not agree with any militant muslim, hindu whatever. because they are attacking me on my soil.

i am from the United Kingdom, i have half my blood relative Irish, i in some part agree with the republic or ireland wanting to be free. but i bitterly apposed the irish republican army. because they were terrorists.. martin luther king was a politician, who gained the support of black and whit together, he was the man, he was the guy who made things what they are today, he should recieve all the praise. because on my own grave i will never support a terrorist.

anmd what the hell are you talking about getting scared walking into a white mans church... in la.... please, if you said you lived in redneck country red neckville.. i may have taken that a little more seriously... but in LA ... no surely not.

Nightfire · 02-24-2004, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

well there you go, he refers to the white people as the whites. no respect and racism from the start.

malcom-x may very well have enthused alot of black people in the 60's but he did not gain the respect of the white community as a whole. as bad as that seems it is true. like with terroism, i willl not agree with any militant muslim, hindu whatever. because they are attacking me on my soil.

i am from the United Kingdom, i have half my blood relative Irish, i in some part agree with the republic or ireland wanting to be free. but i bitterly apposed the irish republican army. because they were terrorists.. martin luther king was a politician, who gained the support of black and whit together, he was the man, he was the guy who made things what they are today, he should recieve all the praise. because on my own grave i will never support a terrorist.

anmd what the hell are you talking about getting scared walking into a white mans church... in la.... please, if you said you lived in redneck country red neckville.. i may have taken that a little more seriously... but in LA ... no surely not.

that's because i studied details about US history in the 1950s and 60s during my junior year and i'm reading "the autobiography of malcolm x," that's why it instinctively influenced me to get nervous when being in a place where a color majority is 99%.

but i do want you all to know that i'm not a racist myself because i know that there ARE whites who are as nice as sheeps. for instance, my college counselor, he's white, but he's one of the nicest person in the school. and here in Tactical Gamer, most my favorite friends here are also white (in case you wanna know: apophis, wyz, and miko)...so there, i'm clean from any racism ideals and i love you all. bye

Wintermute · 02-24-2004, 11:16 AM

I recently saw a TV program that said that Nelson Mandela advocated violent struggle in South Africa. This suprised me as he is a PC hero in the UK. Every other slum towerblock built for poor black people is called Nelson Mandela Towers. Malcom-X is not revered by as many due to his racist and violent beliefs.

**CingularDuality** · 02-24-2004, 10:25 PM

Well said, Psi... Your comments surprise me with their clarity and effect. You just made me rethink my vote.

That said, I guess I'll justify my vote by saying that I hope that MLK had a greater impact on black culture... It's not exactly something that we can quantify, is it?

MLK's message was certainly more appealing to non-blacks...

**DudeMan** · 02-25-2004, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psi_RedEye22

Yes. He's reffering to an entire culture, he called them "whites". How in hell is that racist? If i was reffering to the entire black culture/asian culture, i'd say blacks or asians. I can't see how that wasn't 100% politically correct, unless you want to call them "people with lighter skin tones than everyone else except Albinos".

well it was not a 100% politically correct. white people originate from England, America, autralia france germany etc etc... therefore our cultures span from all around theglobe. to refer to someone as white therefore he is steriotyped is racism in its baisci form.

after all isnt racism seeing a colour and prejudging the person or pserson's bythat colour. it is exactlywhathe is doing. he is racist. if hehad said, white american just as anywhite american would have to say african american etc etc./..

if i went down in new york city and said, the blacks are a bunchof criminals because most of thecrime being committed is by those black youths.... where statistically thatmaybe marginally true, i would still be racist because i have condemed all theblack youths in thearea to thesame steriotyping.

so no i dont think i over usedthe word at all.

well nightfire, and i am not calling you a lyer i believethatyou are not racist. you wouldbe prettystupid to playhere and bea racist, because im notsuure many people would let anyone sit. but what you mentioned, is itsself a touchy issue. as sad as it is, it seems thatif i want to takew thesame attitudeas you i am called racist and i say this with conviction.. this is not you... let me make it clear.. but i know fro certain that this correct, i said the same thing as you did that i have lots of black guys for friends and i was beaten up in my school because the boyswho heard me say this said i was a racist. i thought nothing of that but a year later someone else an adult teacher told me i was racist because i hung around with 2 white boys in a school dominated by the black and asian british community. when i told him i had black freinds he said./.. so yourstill a racist with token black boys.....

not saying i agree withthat infact i dont... but it is just diheartneing when you find out that this is a widely accepted opinion that white people at least in my country have t be racist. according to the majority of the black community i know most aagree with this statement... i mean ... its enough to turn you racist.

oh and myspace bar is broken only working half the time. i have corrected most i see...

**DudeMan** · 02-25-2004, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psi_RedEye22

Racism is a too widely thrown around term nowadays, and there is no clear-cut definition of what a racist is. A racist can be someone who cuts a black in line, and gets a hate crime filed against him. A racist can be someone who dates only a certian culture, not giving all cultures an equal opportunity. Most of all, there can be blind racism, (we'll call this "Affirmative Action" to be P-C) and that is the worst, and most widely spread form of racism nowadays. Racism is everywhere, and it really isn't going anywhere in America. The only problem is, minorities are getting backed up by the government, and label almost anything a hate crime. The government appeals to the majority of people, whom happen to be all the cultures of minorities nowadays. Is there ever going to be a "white" support group? Nah, that's KKK, man, you can't do that. How about colleges for whites? Nope. That's racist, too.

The fact is, it's too easy for minorities to be racist against whites today. Even Martin Luther King, Jr. was a little appeased towards the white community. Malcolm-X was an avocator of violence, and many many people of his culture followed his views. They saw the oppression, they saw the hate, something needed to be done. They took up arms. In America, no one is going to be perfectly equal, ever. The white culture used to be violent against the blacks, and the blacks fought back with the Black Panthers (I'm aware that isn't how it started), and Malcolm-X. Malcolm-X saw an opportunity to portray the oppression layed down by whites onto the black community. Admit it, even you thought about something racist at one point. Leaders like him get more accomplished that some heart-felt speech about having a dream that everyone is equal, because that isn't true. Both leaders were assassinated. One by a white man, one by another black man.

Is it so hard to believe Malcolm-X made the greater difference? No white guy took pot-shots at him. They were afraid. Malcolm-X had thrown fear into those who oppressed his culture, and was successful. Malcolm-X was a leader of the African American people, no one said a leader had to be a Catholic Preacher, or an angelic figure of any means. No, Malcolm-X led his people, on a war he seemed to have deemed necessary to fight. That is why i believe Malcolm-X was the greater leader that MLK.

where i can see your point you have failed to seethe paralelle between malcom- x ...people loved him he has fought to free the black people from this opression.. and the KKK,because in my opinion theyare the same organisation batting for the other team. but thegovernment didnt crushthe black panthers as much as they eventuaklly did the KKK because the government gavetheblack guya break...

butthere is no difference between the two, i hatethe KKKbut in the same light i must hate the black panthers and malcom-x. i will never agree with terroristswho encourage violence.
thatincludethe KKK

and actually you have really brushed past whatmade martain luther so sucessful, the racial position held bymost americans in theperiod wasthatthe black people asawholewere abunchof uncivilised savages, not capable of living with the white man. thatthe black man wasgenetically inferior.

well malcom x reinforces that idea, if you dont like it shoot them is the kind of thing the white people in the us would expect from black people.

whatmartin lutherdid was show america that the black man was just as gifted and could do juastthe same asanywhite man. his inspring speaches and so fourth showed the nation that black men could get an education.. etc etc.... without a sympathetic government malcom x would have been killed. and the reason there was a sympathetic governement is because of people like martin luther king. politicians who proved that the steriotypes were wrong. not annoyancesa thatenfoprced the ideas put fourth by the racist.

02-25-2004, 11:59 AM

Not once have I seen any of you actually quote any facts about Malcom X. You people have not a clue just how NOT racist he became.

He was killed because he abandoned the nation of Islam. He abandoned the nation of Islam because he saw it for what it was...a black lead hate group. He then started his own following espousing the virtues of peace and hard work...all the time slaming the nation of Islam. While it can't be proven 100% most believe that Louis Farrakhan had Malcom X assasinated for abandoning the Nation and "selling out" to the more peaceful MLK doctrine.

After abandoning the Nation, MLK and Malcom X met several times and spoke. You can also see many whites at Malcom Xs speeches on tolerance and understanding before he was killed.

Malcom X was a great man. He was poor and ignorant. Commited a crime and was imprisoned. Then educated himself in prison to nearly a Masters degree level in English and Political Science. Yes...he joined the nation of Islam and went along with the hate doctrine at first...but then he left and saw the light. He became very a pragmatic and thoughtful thinker on race relations and for that he was murdered.

He was murdered because he left the side of hate for good.

I'm white and attend an HBU (Historically Black University). It can really open ones eyes.

**DudeMan** · 02-25-2004, 12:07 PM

well i just disagree with that in its entirity,

sorry spectre but the man was a hater, he chose his path and people followed, he did a whol lot of bad with the violence he had spread. i am very happy that he denounced after he had already committed. but by that time it was too late. murdered or not it is a shame he died, and if he is was as pragmatic as you say then it is a crying shame.

but it will not change my opinion thatluther was much much better for the equal rights movemnet, and overall it is too late to go back when you have started and spread violence..

think we will have to agree to disagree.

oh and im sorry spectre and this isnt against you.. but the fact thatthe united states still has black universities, is a disgrace and is wholly racist on its own, and be careful that the opinions being given to you are not themselves racist propaganda.

i have had such experiences with an asian politics teacherwith a mostly asian class.. he started trying to tell me how the white man is to blaim for sept 11.... so i had him disaplined by the headmaster.

it is very easy when you are surrounded by 1 culture to slant your opinions to them. that is why i hate all black this and all asian that... it means that they do not mix with everyone else and encourages racism. and whats more racist is if you choose to allow all black or all asian, where is the all white.,.... nope cant do thatits rascist.

hypocracy

Nightfire · 02-25-2004, 04:27 PM

nah, i think spectre has made a very good point

spectre: most of the stuff you're telling us are all in "the autobiography of malcolm x"

View Poll Results: Who was the better black leader during the famous African-American struggle?
Martin Luther King JR.	12	92.31%
Malcolm X	1	7.69%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

02-21-2004, 11:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
Nightfire Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: United States Age: 22 Posts: 795	Malcolm X or Martin Luther King JR? Martin Luther King JR wanted to deal with the afro-american struggle by using peace, whereas Malcolm X followed the prinicipal of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" but once again, MLK countered Malcolm's strategy by saying "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth makes everyone toothless and blind"......therefore, MLK has my vote.

02-23-2004, 12:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
Nightfire Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: United States Age: 22 Posts: 795	yes, we know he's kinda racist too, but then again, the whites during those times the whites were pretty mean to minorities (even today, i feel nervous when going into a white church....not to mention LA cop abuse not too long ago and tormenting my mom for being asians ) but i'm glad it's changed, i love you all Last edited by Nightfire; 02-23-2004 at 01:02 PM.

02-24-2004, 11:16 AM	#9 (permalink)
Wintermute Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Age: 24 Posts: 1,166	Re: Malcolm X or Martin Luther King JR? I recently saw a TV program that said that Nelson Mandela advocated violent struggle in South Africa. This suprised me as he is a PC hero in the UK. Every other slum towerblock built for poor black people is called Nelson Mandela Towers. Malcom-X is not revered by as many due to his racist and violent beliefs. __________________ Wintermute Play EVE online. It's like being an accounting addict in space. www.MakePovertyHistory.com

02-24-2004, 10:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
CingularDuality Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, USA Age: 33 Posts: 16,798	Re: Malcolm X or Martin Luther King JR? Well said, Psi... Your comments surprise me with their clarity and effect. You just made me rethink my vote. That said, I guess I'll justify my vote by saying that I hope that MLK had a greater impact on black culture... It's not exactly something that we can quantify, is it? MLK's message was certainly more appealing to non-blacks... __________________ Become a supporting member! -- Shop at the Tactical Market! Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage." TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

02-22-2004, 10:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
Wolfie Join Date: May 2003 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 1,405	Wasn't Malcom X a little bit racist?

02-23-2004, 01:01 PM	#6 (permalink)
Nightfire Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: United States Age: 22 Posts: 795	acutally, i know not all whites were racists, but once again, i'm reading a malcolm X book and since all i see in the book about "whites" (in this case, he think all whites)...so i kinda went in with the flow....sorry for the misunderstanding. wolfie: i'm glad to hear that you guys are against racism.

02-23-2004, 02:43 PM	#7 (permalink)
DudeMan Join Date: May 2003 Location: london England Age: 22 Posts: 3,258	well there you go, he refers to the white people as the whites. no respect and racism from the start. malcom-x may very well have enthused alot of black people in the 60's but he did not gain the respect of the white community as a whole. as bad as that seems it is true. like with terroism, i willl not agree with any militant muslim, hindu whatever. because they are attacking me on my soil. i am from the United Kingdom, i have half my blood relative Irish, i in some part agree with the republic or ireland wanting to be free. but i bitterly apposed the irish republican army. because they were terrorists.. martin luther king was a politician, who gained the support of black and whit together, he was the man, he was the guy who made things what they are today, he should recieve all the praise. because on my own grave i will never support a terrorist. anmd what the hell are you talking about getting scared walking into a white mans church... in la.... please, if you said you lived in redneck country red neckville.. i may have taken that a little more seriously... but in LA ... no surely not.

02-25-2004, 11:59 AM	#13 (permalink)
Spectre Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Malcolm X or Martin Luther King JR? Not once have I seen any of you actually quote any facts about Malcom X. You people have not a clue just how NOT racist he became. He was killed because he abandoned the nation of Islam. He abandoned the nation of Islam because he saw it for what it was...a black lead hate group. He then started his own following espousing the virtues of peace and hard work...all the time slaming the nation of Islam. While it can't be proven 100% most believe that Louis Farrakhan had Malcom X assasinated for abandoning the Nation and "selling out" to the more peaceful MLK doctrine. After abandoning the Nation, MLK and Malcom X met several times and spoke. You can also see many whites at Malcom Xs speeches on tolerance and understanding before he was killed. Malcom X was a great man. He was poor and ignorant. Commited a crime and was imprisoned. Then educated himself in prison to nearly a Masters degree level in English and Political Science. Yes...he joined the nation of Islam and went along with the hate doctrine at first...but then he left and saw the light. He became very a pragmatic and thoughtful thinker on race relations and for that he was murdered. He was murdered because he left the side of hate for good. I'm white and attend an HBU (Historically Black University). It can really open ones eyes. Last edited by Spectre; 02-25-2004 at 12:01 PM.

02-25-2004, 12:07 PM	#14 (permalink)
DudeMan Join Date: May 2003 Location: london England Age: 22 Posts: 3,258	Re: Malcolm X or Martin Luther King JR? well i just disagree with that in its entirity, sorry spectre but the man was a hater, he chose his path and people followed, he did a whol lot of bad with the violence he had spread. i am very happy that he denounced after he had already committed. but by that time it was too late. murdered or not it is a shame he died, and if he is was as pragmatic as you say then it is a crying shame. but it will not change my opinion thatluther was much much better for the equal rights movemnet, and overall it is too late to go back when you have started and spread violence.. think we will have to agree to disagree. oh and im sorry spectre and this isnt against you.. but the fact thatthe united states still has black universities, is a disgrace and is wholly racist on its own, and be careful that the opinions being given to you are not themselves racist propaganda. i have had such experiences with an asian politics teacherwith a mostly asian class.. he started trying to tell me how the white man is to blaim for sept 11.... so i had him disaplined by the headmaster. it is very easy when you are surrounded by 1 culture to slant your opinions to them. that is why i hate all black this and all asian that... it means that they do not mix with everyone else and encourages racism. and whats more racist is if you choose to allow all black or all asian, where is the all white.,.... nope cant do thatits rascist. hypocracy Last edited by DudeMan; 02-25-2004 at 12:12 PM.

02-25-2004, 04:27 PM	#15 (permalink)
Nightfire Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: United States Age: 22 Posts: 795	Re: Malcolm X or Martin Luther King JR? nah, i think spectre has made a very good point spectre: most of the stuff you're telling us are all in "the autobiography of malcolm x"

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