Downing Street Memo- thoughts? - Page 9

rs_al · 06-18-2005, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

20 years from now I can watch the History Channel and actually get a better perspective on everything that has happened. My like or dislike of the administration isn't going to change based on conjecture, rumor, spin, or any TV/Radio "entertainment show" host trying to grind an axe to get ratings.

I don't know if that really makes things better. The present has a way of changing your views on the past. Most people don't even know that Hawaii wasn't even a state when Pearl Harbor happened. Now that we know it is a state, Hawaii being attacked seems like a grevious attack against the US. But really it was just some island we occupied. Personally, if the Puerto Rico or Guam got bombed, I bet you'd find a lot of people suddenly suprised to learn they are US holdings.

**CingularDuality** · 06-18-2005, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rs_al

I don't know if that really makes things better. The present has a way of changing your views on the past. Most people don't even know that Hawaii wasn't even a state when Pearl Harbor happened. Now that we know it is a state, Hawaii being attacked seems like a grevious attack against the US. But really it was just some island we occupied. Personally, if the Puerto Rico or Guam got bombed, I bet you'd find a lot of people suddenly suprised to learn they are US holdings.

Kinda off topic, but Hawaii is an interesting history. From 1941-45 it was under martial law and ruled by the United States Military. And back in the 1890s, the islands went from being a monarchy to a sovereign republic and in 1898 the republic transferred sovereignity to the United States.

There's a movie out there called "Hawaii" that I remember watching in Socialogy class back in high school.... Excellent film. Fascinating history and culture, there...

**DudeMan** · 06-18-2005, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Root

Fair comment Dudeman, but consider this. International law gets updated, and suddenly theres a US carrier off the coast of Ireland and Spetsnaz start carrying out special ops to get rid of trash like Blair becuase Ireland has been unlawfully invaded.

While this is happening, UN aid gets send to Zimbabwe because nothing is wrong there according to the same international law.

Absurdly far fetched, but just enough so to illustrate my point. Is the alternative a single world government? I dread the thought of it myself. I think of that and I see visions of vader, palpatine ordering stormtroopers to carry out raids in the middle of the night to make people disappear just for *thinking* anti government thoughts.

Here's another thought. Instead of invading Iraq, causing untold grief, installing a puppet regieme and calling it freedom, why didn't someone get solid intel and send a special ops team in to kill Hussein? Less mess, less fuss, but tragically a lot less political point scoring.

I refuse to believe intelligence agencies are so deficient that they didn't know (as in possession of hard facts) that there were no WMD's. No one had business interfering in Iraq. They are a sovereign nation. They did not present a threat to the US, UK or any of the other invading countries. If they did, there are sufficient measures in place. If Iraq had a bunch of long range chemical rockets on the launch pad and there was any indication of them being used, I'd be all for a tactical nuclear strike. Using WMD's to *respond* to the use (or threat of use) of these same weapons is perfectly reasonable. If someone is going to punch you in the face, you don't let them, you kick them in the balls first.

The problem with Iraq, just like the Falklands and every other conflict, is career politicians. Government service should be an honour, and it should be something a person makes sacrifices to do. People should give up their job go and serve for a while, and then go back to their regular lives. Unfortunatly the people who get their names on ballot papers all over the "civilised" world are in it for the perks and the power. Cut their pay down to sensible levels (£20k for a UK MP), and you might start getting statesmen instead of politicians.

Root

i understand where you are comming from root, but if blair and England were given sanctions to follow, deadlines to meet, and preassure from all countries in the UN to do something, it would be done. if not, then as with any country i would expect action to be taken,

the fact still remained, that sadam ignored the sanctions, and was allowed too by countries who could not be bothered to do anything abiut it. the UN is like a poodle with a pitbulls bark, nothing ever gets done,

i do see what you are saying though, not that im going to agree with you on northern ireland, or the falklands for tha matter,

Buck Fush · 06-19-2005, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USN_Squid

Okay, cool. See ya at the ballot box.

...only because the unfortunate side effect of Democracy is that we can't require IQ tests before allowing citizens to vote.

You can use sarcasm to argue your point; I prefer inflamatory insults.

**USN_Squid** · 06-20-2005, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Fush

...only because the unfortunate side effect of Democracy is that we can't require IQ tests before allowing citizens to vote.

You can use sarcasm to argue your point; I prefer inflamatory insults.

Well, your sig makes a lot more sense now.

**DudeMan** · 06-20-2005, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USN_Squid

Well, your sig makes a lot more sense now.

yet more sarcasm, awaits iting fingernails for comeback with inflamatory insults.... i could give you pointers if you wish....

**USN_Squid** · 06-21-2005, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

yet more sarcasm, awaits iting fingernails for comeback with inflamatory insults.... i could give you pointers if you wish....

Just a reminder that Tactical Gamer requires respect for others in the Sandbox. Disagreements are welcome, debate is encouraged, but personal insults are not tolerated. Anyone who demonstrates his or her inability to handle the liberties allowed in this one forum will lose the privilege of posting in the Sandbox.

Here's the link if you care to read the rest of it: http://www.tacticalgamer.com/sandbox/31988-sandbox-etiquette-required-reading.html

Buck Fush · 06-21-2005, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USN_Squid

Just a reminder that Tactical Gamer requires respect for others in the Sandbox. Disagreements are welcome, debate is encouraged, but personal insults are not tolerated.

I respect your right to be as ignorant as you want to be.

**CingularDuality** · 06-21-2005, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Fush

I respect your right to be as ignorant as you want to be.

OK, anymore discussion on the Downing Street Memo? Because this thread is headed towards being locked right now.

Get it back on track or it's done.

**DudeMan** · 06-21-2005, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

OK, anymore discussion on the Downing Street Memo? Because this thread is headed towards being locked right now.

Get it back on track or it's done.

ill appologise, here, i didnt think squid and fush were actually having barney, i thought it was a wind up, i didnt mean to aggrevate that squid.

**CingularDuality** · 06-22-2005, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

ill appologise, here, i didnt think squid and fush were actually having barney, i thought it was a wind up, i didnt mean to aggrevate that squid.

No apology is needed among friends.

Lets just get it back on track or let the thread die... I don't care either way...

Buck Fush · 06-22-2005, 12:15 PM

I've been very abrasive my first few days here. I appologise to anyone I've offended by my personal insults, especially the people at whom they were directed. They won't be repeated. I'll stick to factual arguments in the future.

Anyone listen to Ed Schultz? I think he nailed it on the head yesterday when he said it's a sad state of affairs that more American's have heard about the water being squirted in Tom Cruise's face than have even heard the name "Downing Street Memo's". My wife immediately responded with, "That was funny: what are the Downing Street Memo's?"

**CingularDuality** · 06-22-2005, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Fush

Anyone listen to Ed Schultz? I think he nailed it on the head yesterday when he said it's a sad state of affairs that more American's have heard about the water being squirted in Tom Cruise's face than have even heard the name "Downing Street Memo's". My wife immediately responded with, "That was funny: what are the Downing Street Memo's?"

I think that Rathergate and the Newsweek Qu'ran story has kinda put the media in its place... The Downing Street Memo's credibility isn't too great and the media is not too sure it wants to accept it as fact yet. Trust me, if they thought it was credible, it would be front page news.

Buck Fush · 06-22-2005, 02:18 PM

Yeah, but they can't even talk about it's existence? After reading it, I don't understand the big deal in the first place. All I saw was really someone commenting that they believed the Bush administration was fixing intel around their predetermined course of war.

**CingularDuality** · 06-22-2005, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Fush

Yeah, but they can't even talk about it's existence?

They did. It was all over the news for a while. But what's the story? "Unconfirmed memo says Prez fixed intel to go to war!" That first word screws up the whole headline...

06-22-2005, 12:15 PM	#132 (permalink)
Buck Fush Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 608	Re: Downing Street Memo- thoughts? I've been very abrasive my first few days here. I appologise to anyone I've offended by my personal insults, especially the people at whom they were directed. They won't be repeated. I'll stick to factual arguments in the future. Anyone listen to Ed Schultz? I think he nailed it on the head yesterday when he said it's a sad state of affairs that more American's have heard about the water being squirted in Tom Cruise's face than have even heard the name "Downing Street Memo's". My wife immediately responded with, "That was funny: what are the Downing Street Memo's?"

06-22-2005, 02:18 PM	#134 (permalink)
Buck Fush Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 608	Re: Downing Street Memo- thoughts? Yeah, but they can't even talk about it's existence? After reading it, I don't understand the big deal in the first place. All I saw was really someone commenting that they believed the Bush administration was fixing intel around their predetermined course of war.

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