Flag burning amendment

**CingularDuality** · 06-23-2005, 05:52 AM

The United States House of Representatives passed a flag burning amendment today: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...09:H.J.RES.10:

Some analysis: http://apnews.excite.com/article/200...D8AT5PIG0.html
I find it interesting that this journalist indicates that the issue is divided on party lines when it looks to me like it's a nonpartisan issue...

Eh, I was wrong: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll296.xml

So... How do you feel about this issue?

The Flag Burning Page

US Flag.com

**Pokerface** · 06-23-2005, 07:15 AM

That quote from your sig sums it up nicely, I think, Cing. (reprinted here in case you change it tomrrow or something)
"Nothing could possibly desecrate that symbol more than a law which contradicts everything for which it stands." -Dave Galanter

Every time I see something like this crop up, it makes me want to hold a freedom party at a public park where I burn a few American flags simply for the reason that I can without fear of criminal prosecution. Unless I'm breaking a fire ordinance or something.

**leejo** · 06-23-2005, 10:23 AM

This isn't about the flag it's about the 2006 election. It puts Democrats, the nuance party, in the position of having to be either against the flag or against free speech. Republicans are the pro-flag party and everyone knows it.

**Wyzcrak** · 06-23-2005, 11:22 AM

Do you have lunch with "everyone" on Wednesdays, or is there a "everyone" mailing list I'm not on?

Or was that just a gross and likely unmeasurable generalization? haha

**leejo** · 06-23-2005, 11:54 AM

Everyone loves a smartypants.

Buck Fush · 06-23-2005, 12:15 PM

I agree, Pokerface. Nice quote Cing. I wish I had more to say, but that says it all.

Spyder · 06-23-2005, 12:33 PM

Yeah, They try passing this atleast once every session of congress. I think this is the third or fourth time now.

Addict · 06-23-2005, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Fush

I agree, Pokerface. Nice quote Cing. I wish I had more to say, but that says it all.

sums it up nicely.

rs_al · 06-23-2005, 01:45 PM

When I was at Boys' State, I had the priviledge of hearing this poem recited by the author:
http://www.grunt.com/scuttlebutt/cor.../amtheflag.asp

It was a very moving experience, his delivery was very genuine. I don't think I could burn a flag, knowing how much it means to so many people.

**Pokerface** · 06-23-2005, 01:50 PM

The flag is symbolic, but it's the country that's at the heart of it. The flag represents a nation and a set of ideals, but it's just cloth. You can't rip off a star and expect Florida to spin off into space (despite my best efforts otherwise).

Burning the flag does not hurt America. Not allowing it to be burned would hurt America far more.

Buck Fush · 06-23-2005, 01:50 PM

Here's the key statement IMHO: "They say [Hillary] believes a federal law would not trample First Amendment rights because, like laws against cross burnings, it would ban flag desecration that is deemed to pose a threat to others - and not acts of political expression that are protected by the First Amendment.

However, a law like the one proposed by the senator would likely be challenged in courts because Congress has no clear right to outlaw flag burning. That is why supporters of the ban want to add a one-line amendment to the Constitution that says, "The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States." Definitely NOT a Hillary supporter, but our checks and balances are in place for a reason. I guess this wouldn't bother me as much if this administration wasn't already talking about a constitutional admendment to ban gay marriage. Wait, yes it would.

**CingularDuality** · 06-23-2005, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rs_al

When I was at Boys' State, I had the priviledge of hearing this poem recited by the author:
http://www.grunt.com/scuttlebutt/cor.../amtheflag.asp

It was a very moving experience, his delivery was very genuine. I don't think I could burn a flag, knowing how much it means to so many people.

I'll tell you, the first time I heard Johnny Cash recite That Ragged Ol' Flag, I felt similarly...

Wintermute · 06-23-2005, 04:09 PM

I thought flag desecration was already illegal.

I was under this impression because of events at two large US military bases in the UK, Flying Dales and Menwith Hill. Both are spying stations which intercept electronic and radio communications. There are regular protests there by the usual civil liberties/ hippy alliances. I remember reading that one year protesters were arrested because they drove over a US flag which was on the ground, desecrating it, and since the military bases are US soil, they fell foul of US law.

rs_al · 06-23-2005, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wintermute

I thought flag desecration was already illegal.

I was under this impression because of events at two large US military bases in the UK, Flying Dales and Menwith Hill. Both are spying stations which intercept electronic and radio communications. There are regular protests there by the usual civil liberties/ hippy alliances. I remember reading that one year protesters were arrested because they drove over a US flag which was on the ground, desecrating it, and since the military bases are US soil, they fell foul of US law.

I found this, suprsingly:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...t_I_CHAPTER_33
But I don't think it's really enforced at all.

**phyllis** · 06-23-2005, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

Burning the flag does not hurt America. Not allowing it to be burned would hurt America far more.

That pretty much sums it up for me.

06-23-2005, 05:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
CingularDuality Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, USA Age: 33 Posts: 16,806	Flag burning amendment The United States House of Representatives passed a flag burning amendment today: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...09:H.J.RES.10: Some analysis: http://apnews.excite.com/article/200...D8AT5PIG0.html I find it interesting that this journalist indicates that the issue is divided on party lines when it looks to me like it's a nonpartisan issue... Eh, I was wrong: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll296.xml So... How do you feel about this issue? The Flag Burning Page US Flag.com __________________ Become a supporting member! -- Shop at the Tactical Market! Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage." TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

06-23-2005, 07:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
Pokerface Join Date: May 2003 Location: MD, USA Age: 29 Posts: 5,722	Re: Flag burning amendment That quote from your sig sums it up nicely, I think, Cing. (reprinted here in case you change it tomrrow or something) "Nothing could possibly desecrate that symbol more than a law which contradicts everything for which it stands." -Dave Galanter Every time I see something like this crop up, it makes me want to hold a freedom party at a public park where I burn a few American flags simply for the reason that I can without fear of criminal prosecution. Unless I'm breaking a fire ordinance or something. __________________ NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues. Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality. <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

06-23-2005, 10:23 AM	#3 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,676	Re: Flag burning amendment This isn't about the flag it's about the 2006 election. It puts Democrats, the nuance party, in the position of having to be either against the flag or against free speech. Republicans are the pro-flag party and everyone knows it.

06-23-2005, 11:22 AM	#4 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,139	Re: Flag burning amendment Do you have lunch with "everyone" on Wednesdays, or is there a "everyone" mailing list I'm not on? Or was that just a gross and likely unmeasurable generalization? haha __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

06-23-2005, 11:54 AM	#5 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,676	Re: Flag burning amendment Everyone loves a smartypants.

06-23-2005, 12:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
Buck Fush Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 602	Re: Flag burning amendment I agree, Pokerface. Nice quote Cing. I wish I had more to say, but that says it all.

06-23-2005, 12:33 PM	#7 (permalink)
Spyder Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: MN (Middle of Nowhere, MN) Age: 25 Posts: 996	Re: Flag burning amendment Yeah, They try passing this atleast once every session of congress. I think this is the third or fourth time now. __________________ a.k.a. NinjaPirateAssassin Celibacy is not Hereditary. Everybody should believe in something - I believe I'll have another drink. Happiness is like wetting your pants, everyone can see it but only you can feel the warmth. Flying is easy, Just throw yourself at the ground and miss!

06-23-2005, 01:45 PM	#9 (permalink)
rs_al Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 499	Re: Flag burning amendment When I was at Boys' State, I had the priviledge of hearing this poem recited by the author: http://www.grunt.com/scuttlebutt/cor.../amtheflag.asp It was a very moving experience, his delivery was very genuine. I don't think I could burn a flag, knowing how much it means to so many people.

06-23-2005, 01:50 PM	#10 (permalink)
Pokerface Join Date: May 2003 Location: MD, USA Age: 29 Posts: 5,722	Re: Flag burning amendment The flag is symbolic, but it's the country that's at the heart of it. The flag represents a nation and a set of ideals, but it's just cloth. You can't rip off a star and expect Florida to spin off into space (despite my best efforts otherwise). Burning the flag does not hurt America. Not allowing it to be burned would hurt America far more. __________________ NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues. Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality. <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

06-23-2005, 01:50 PM	#11 (permalink)
Buck Fush Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 602	Re: Flag burning amendment Here's the key statement IMHO: "They say [Hillary] believes a federal law would not trample First Amendment rights because, like laws against cross burnings, it would ban flag desecration that is deemed to pose a threat to others - and not acts of political expression that are protected by the First Amendment. However, a law like the one proposed by the senator would likely be challenged in courts because Congress has no clear right to outlaw flag burning. That is why supporters of the ban want to add a one-line amendment to the Constitution that says, "The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States." Definitely NOT a Hillary supporter, but our checks and balances are in place for a reason. I guess this wouldn't bother me as much if this administration wasn't already talking about a constitutional admendment to ban gay marriage. Wait, yes it would.

06-23-2005, 04:09 PM	#13 (permalink)
Wintermute Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Age: 24 Posts: 1,166	Re: Flag burning amendment I thought flag desecration was already illegal. I was under this impression because of events at two large US military bases in the UK, Flying Dales and Menwith Hill. Both are spying stations which intercept electronic and radio communications. There are regular protests there by the usual civil liberties/ hippy alliances. I remember reading that one year protesters were arrested because they drove over a US flag which was on the ground, desecrating it, and since the military bases are US soil, they fell foul of US law. __________________ Wintermute Play EVE online. It's like being an accounting addict in space. www.MakePovertyHistory.com

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