Root

I hope there's more to it than that, because tresspass alone is not a criminal offence under english law, and therefore you cannot be arrested for it. All you can do is use reasonable force to evict them.

Also, if they were doing anything criminal, I hope its something they could receive 5 years or more in jail for, otherwise it's not an arrestable offence under section 24 of PACE, which is where you and I get our powers of arrest from.

Root

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DudeMan

we contacted the police imediatly and informed them of the situation, they seemed to be taking it seriously, so we made sure not to loose eyes on them, we corodinated with the aditional security in the station, and cut them off, first off they were told to stop and drop their bags, then we told them to go with the security, and we had one infront one behind and two flanking, we moved them to the hut, sat them down, and informed them they were tresspassing.

the gate where they jumped over was damaged, they could have done this, they may not, but damage to property, is a criminal offense, and i believe falls under aggrevated tresspass. (the damage may have already been there but it was enough to act legally to stop these guys.)

the police arrested them, and the rest was history.

__________________


The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

peardog

..Geez.. No Criminal Tresspass in good old UK? Near a Power plant? Hre in the States (and I assume most if not all states have similar laws in place)... All it takes is the Private Property Signs posted on the border of thier property (enpough to show tha the suspsect had to know) and thye could be arrested for Tresspass.. Now we are usually talking nothing more then a citation (like a traffic ticket) .. But with US Patriot Act those folks could be sitting in CUBA for 6 months (..like it or not I guess..)

Overlag

thats one problem in the UK Peardog, we are too lean on criminals, and punish people for protecting THEMSELFS inside there own home....

another example would be this. Some criminal has broke into your house, if they HURT themselfs in your house, they can sue you?!?! WTF?

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From Adam Webb

Root

That is no longer the case. You can now fight back, and even kill in self defence. You may not attack an intruder if they attempt to flee, or if you take them down and they cease resisting.

The only trespass that is going to become a criminal offence, is trespass on royal land. That however, will have some bugs that need ironing out, as at least one park in london is technically royal land. The motive for bringing this law in, is to stop people climbing up the outside of buckingham palace to protest. This law is being brought in as part of the governments plans to reduce the workload for agencies involved in law enforcement.

Next it'll be a law that requires all criminals to complete an MG11 (Non police witness statement), and complete all the CPS paperwork and deliver themselves to a police station if they commit a crime.

Dudeman, if you *saw* them damage the gate, then thats criminal damage. If you didn't *see* them do it, they are innocent, and what you described sounds like unlawful arrest. You can't detain a trespasser, you can only use reasonable force to evict them. If the police told you to detain them, its still illegal. The police can't give you the authority to do something illegal. Well not yet anyway.

Root

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CingularDuality

Isn't seeing people next to a recently damaged gate evidence of a crime? Just because there wasn't an eyewitness doesn't mean the crime didn't happen... There are other ways to prove the crime took place. Fingerprints certainly don't lie.

And can't UK police "deputize" citizens? Here in Texas it's illegal to not assist a peace officer when he asks for it:

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TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

Root

No and no.

Cilivians *do* have power to arrest on suspicion, but only a fool would do so. If you arrest on suspicion, and you're wrong (or the offence simply can't be proved), then you're up on unlawful arrest charges, and also face financially devestating civil penalties. I've seen some really bad security guards in my town, and I'd dearly love to get one of them to do a stop on me for theft. The payouts can be pretty big. Fingerprints are only circumstancial evidence, and not enough for a conviction in a case like this.

The wisest course of action for a civilian in the UK is to arrest someone only if they have seen them commit an arrestable offence, or if they see them committing an arrestable offence. If its something like theft, you have to wait for them to finish committing the offence before you can touch them, if it's something like assault, then clearly you wade in straight away (unless you're a coward or its a tactically unsound thing to do).

The UK government has some really dumb ideas when it comes to laws. Instead of making the maximum blood alcohol level for driving absolute zero, they raised it about 10 years ago. They also recently passed a law so that civilians are NOT obliged to assist a police officer. It's all part of the politicians plans to destroy society I reckon.

Root

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CingularDuality

Interesting....

Your blood alcohol content is rarely at zero. A slice of bread can raise your BAC to around .01, probably even higher on small people...

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Root

Fair enough, but I think my general point there is extremely valid.

Root

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Benny_

I think this sums up my thoughts.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4671577.stm

DudeMan

im sorry are you trying to dispute this actually happened or something, first i do not know the entire law on tresspass, however, i do remember reading that aggrevated tresspass is a criminal offense which you can be arrrested for. aggrevated tresspass (and this isnt word for word) is tresspass with the intent to commit a CRIME. now the police searched these two individuals and arrested them under section 28 of the anti terror act (or whatever the damn thing is.) which to my knowledge (what i was told by the sgt.) is having materials which could be related to terrorist activites. hence, the police found reasonable suspision to arrest them for intent to do crime, which would make the arrest legal under agrevated tresspass.

i dont know exactly what they had, firther more, i dont know the laws reguarding building sites, and tresspass, and also it is important to note, that the Queens cousin has his private helo at the powerstation, so it may very well be royal land, although its owned by a chinese millionaire so i dont know about that.

and lastly, i submitted an incident report to the police ant to lynx security with full details of how we detained them, and was told by my boss, and the facilities manager of the powerstation, that we acted appropriatly. the police have taken my details, and did not see a problme with this arrest. now why you see a problem i dont know, two days after the worst terror attacks in london, and you think im going to worry about this? you have got to be kidding,


i would also like to add, we did not FORCABLY detain them, we just didnt give them the option to leave, we chased them and cornered them, told them to drop their gear, and then moved them in a formation as to leave no avenue of escape and led them to the guard hut where we told them to take a seat. at no point were these men cautioned or the equivilant thereof, forced to move, forced to stay, infact, i dont even think they were touched.

when the police arrived they imidiatly cuffed them and then investigated... i think you will find i and my team acted completly professionally, and did not act beyond the law.

__________________


The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

Root

Thats wrongful arrest and unlawful imprisonment. One step away from kidnapping. I'd care a lot more if it was me you'd done it to. I'm just trying to help you cover your back here.

Root

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DudeMan

right no it isnt, now you are confusing yourself, if i ask you to step into my house because i want to talk to you, i will close the door, i have not locked you in, and at any point you can use the thing called a door handle to get out.

at no point were these people told they have to stay there, they assumed so because we didnt tell them otherwise.

and omission to tell them the law does not mean i broke the law, i have in no way, focably kiddnapped or imprisoned them, we asked them to step into the cabin and wait for the police, they moved in of their own free will.

im sorry you are wrong, you say you work with police officers, ask them, if i told them they had to stay there, ok you would be right, the fact is, their iggnorance of the fact they could leave is their own problem, they stayed upon request.

and trust me, we are absolutly fine with the police, alot of people who know alot more than me, and probably alot more than you were at the scene, 3.5 hours we were there giveing the details, and i told them what i have told you, there was not kiddnapping, unlawful arrest, false imprisonment, because at the end of the day, we

1, had grounds for arrest, (aggrevated tresspass)

2. didnt actually arrest them anyway, but requested they stay and wait for police...

so trust me, thanks for the warning, but i know what im doing, i know i am completly 100% safe and in the clear....

__________________


The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

Root

You don't know what you're talking about, but that's ok. I have never made a *wrongful* arrest, nor *will* I ever make one, so I can sleep soundly at night.

I'm not a million miles from where you are. Close enough that I'm in your neighbourhood often enough. If you pull anything like what you described regarding this broken gate and the trespassers on me, I'll have you arrested for wrongful arrest and unlawful imprisonment, and the charges *will* stick. I'll have your job, because no security firm in the UK shows the slightest bit of loyalty when a wrongful arrest is made. You'll also spend the rest of your life working for me, because I will pursue it through the civil courst after the criminal courts have finished with you.

Oh and someone remind me never to try and help you again, because clearly you know everything, and when you don't, you just mouth off at anyone who tries to correct you.

Root

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Overlag

ever think that the UK takes "freedom" alittle too far?

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From Adam Webb