Politically incorrect Tshirt - Page 6

**CingularDuality** · 07-18-2005, 02:00 PM

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Originally Posted by improbablecause

CingularDuality:

A few points:

1. That discrimination exists, but nobody seems to realize it or acknowledge it's existence.

It's a fact of life. It will never disappear. And it shouldn't. As I said, prejudice is not always bad...

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2. That race and religion, while at the forefront of the media hype, are far too simplistic characteristics to look at. There are more complex reasons behind it, yet they are not looked at.

I disagree. I'm not looking to get in touch with these monsters' feelings. I just want to keep them from attacking my country again! Race and religion is plenty to use to screen terrorists from coming into our country.

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3. That one cannot become prejudiced against an entire people for the minority actions of a few.

Agreed. Nobody here has suggest that, though...

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4. That people have a misconception of who the "enemy" is.

Yes, it appears that you might...

Mateo · 07-18-2005, 02:01 PM

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Originally Posted by TheFeniX

I find the on-going theme in this thread of:

Muslim = evil terrorists trying to destroy all we hold dear
Christian = paragon of virtue fighting against tyranny

as laughable as it is pretentious. It seems that everyone enjoys glossing over the domestic terrorism Christian fundamentalists push on minorities everyday. Living in Texas, I've probably forced to put up with some of the worst.

"Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

Amen, brother FeniX.

improbablecause · 07-18-2005, 02:02 PM

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Originally Posted by leejo

I think we all understand that not all muslims and not all arabs are terrorists. By what method do you propose we protect ourselves from further terror attacks while preserving the tender feelings or our muslim friends? Also, if necessary, and in an effort to avoid hurting their feelings, how much added risk are you willing to accept?

To be honest, I don't know. I don't work in any position or have the knowledge know-how to make such a proposition. Though for that last question, I'm personally willing to accept whatever risk necessary if it means stopping blatant race/religious profiling. But I'm a peace-loving Canadian, so take that as you may.

I'll say one more thing though: it surprises me that freedom-loving Americans, willing to bring freedom to other countries, have no problem with infringing on the freedoms of others. As long as it doesn't affect them, 'eh?

improbablecause · 07-18-2005, 02:14 PM

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It's a fact of life. It will never disappear. And it shouldn't. As I said, prejudice is not always bad...

"Not always bad", but I'm not talking about the "not always bad" scenarios. I'm talking about the day-to-day prejudicial portrayals of minorities.

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I disagree. I'm not looking to get in touch with these monsters' feelings. I just want to keep them from attacking my country again! Race and religion is plenty to use to screen terrorists from coming into our country.

How do you know?

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Agreed. Nobody here has suggest that, though...

Doesn't need a blatant suggestion to make it so. If I were to say to you, menacingly: "I'm gonna make sure none of you see tomorrow morning..." I think you'd be able to draw what I meant by that. Of course, I don't mean all of you -- only the bad ones! But that isn't what you got from what I just said.

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Yes, it appears that you might...

Who's the "enemy" to you? I think the enemy is one sick human being.

**Pokerface** · 07-18-2005, 02:36 PM

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Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Race and religion is plenty to use to screen terrorists from coming into our country.

Tell that to Wintermute, as the London suicide bombers were from his hometown.

"Getting in touch with their feelings" is the only way any of this has a chance of stopping. Attacks met with counterattacks will only keep the cycle going, and it doesn't seem as though either side has a paragon of a leader who realizes that the cyclic nature of this fighting is fated to continue without something NEW being done about it.

**CingularDuality** · 07-18-2005, 02:50 PM

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Originally Posted by Pokerface

Tell that to Wintermute, as the London suicide bombers were from his hometown.

What race and religion were they? I never said that our only threat is from outside our country... The existance of natural born terrorists in our countries doesn't eliminate the need to keep foreign born terrorists from entering.

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"Getting in touch with their feelings" is the only way any of this has a chance of stopping. Attacks met with counterattacks will only keep the cycle going, and it doesn't seem as though either side has a paragon of a leader who realizes that the cyclic nature of this fighting is fated to continue without something NEW being done about it.

Not true. Standing up to this evil on an international level is something new. And it's working. Look at the concessions being made by countries like Libya and Syria. It may be slow going, but things are changing for the better.

**Pokerface** · 07-18-2005, 02:59 PM

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Originally Posted by CingularDuality

What race and religion were they? I never said that our only threat is from outside our country... The existance of natural born terrorists in our countries doesn't eliminate the need to keep foreign born terrorists from entering.

But it shows that shutting down the borders isn't a NEED, it's just a WANT. Stemming the influx of a particular group won't stop the problem; it'll just make you feel better.

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Not true. Standing up to this evil on an international level is something new. And it's working. Look at the concessions being made by countries like Libya and Syria. It may be slow going, but things are changing for the better.

State-sponsored terrorism doesn't seem to be an issue, or at least not as large an issue as radical factions that exist outside of national boundaries. It's nice that Syria and Libya have started to pay some lip service, but unless some understanding is acheived (on both sides) factions will continue their plans despite implicit or explicit government sponsorship.

**leejo** · 07-18-2005, 03:02 PM

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Originally Posted by CingularDuality

It was on Mockingbird, and I (along with Dallas Sheriff's Deputies) arrested two of those guys just a couple of weeks ago! After they've done their time, they'll be going back to Mexico.

But how were their rims? Was is that tip that lead you to the perps?

**leejo** · 07-18-2005, 03:05 PM

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Originally Posted by improbablecause

I'll say one more thing though: it surprises me that freedom-loving Americans, willing to bring freedom to other countries, have no problem with infringing on the freedoms of others. As long as it doesn't affect them, 'eh?

Not at all. An Arab man in this country may have the right to buy a house, become employed, get a driver's license, and pray in his mosque, but he doesn't have the "right" for me to "like" him any more than I can demand that from anyone else. How he "feels" is his problem, not mine. If his actual rights are trampled, then I will be 100% on his side in that matter.

**CingularDuality** · 07-18-2005, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

But how were their rims? Was is that tip that lead you to the perps?

LOL, no, it was, umm, something else.

**CingularDuality** · 07-18-2005, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

But it shows that shutting down the borders isn't a NEED, it's just a WANT. Stemming the influx of a particular group won't stop the problem; it'll just make you feel better.

So, if you have problems with mosquitoes and bees at your picnic and you have bug spray that will keep the mosquitoes away, but won't have any effect on the bees, you're saying you won't use the spray?

The requirements for attacking us are different if you're born here than if you're visiting or have immigrated. You're under less scrutiny in some ways and more scrutiny in others.

This doesn't change the fact that we need to protect our borders.

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State-sponsored terrorism doesn't seem to be an issue, or at least not as large an issue as radical factions that exist outside of national boundaries. It's nice that Syria and Libya have started to pay some lip service, but unless some understanding is acheived (on both sides) factions will continue their plans despite implicit or explicit government sponsorship.

These terrorist organizations had training camps that rivaled the basic training facilities of many nations' standing armies! Without a place to train, these organizations will eventually fade back into obscurity. We can break these organizations without compromising with them. That's for sure...

**DudeMan** · 07-18-2005, 04:56 PM

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Yes it is wrong to state that "fact". Because it ignores the true factors involved in their criminality. What is there to debate when somebody tells you: "black people are murderers and thieves"? It's sheer ignorance at it's finest.

i never said that, and if you cant see that, i have nothing more to say to you... how dare you simplify all that i siad in this way. i mentioned the area and the context of the quote. and you come out with this garbage..

-... EDIT, I AM sorry for this, as i have said i have enjoyed debating with you, i was just imensly upset by this comment, as it totally ignored the entire context of the situation and focused on the fact i prejudiced the skin colour.... as i said i am walking in an area where the majority of crime is comitted by young black males, so when i see a old asian lady i dont feel scared.... that in its self is a prejudice i will not be blasted for because it is posotive... how do i know she hasnt had her medication and id totting an ak47... but in this area with these kinds of occurences, i will be prejudice of congregations of teens and especially young black males (in groups) this is not a bad thing, when times change opinions change, but i want to remain safe, i dont go picking fights with people on the street, i just make sure i am keeping my witts about me when i am in that situation... the only difference here is i am telling the truth about it, whilst others feel the same but will not say it because it is "politically incorrect"

do not fall victim of what i think you argue so well, you are giving me the same ideologies ,first off, as the ignorant american who beleives all terrorists are the steriopyped (team america characters... saying durka lurka alot)...then came the IRA, if i was living in westminster, i would not have the same fears, because i believe street crime is quite low there, its a rich area,

what a ramble and quote off topic, i apologise but i was annoyed with the black and white (if you will excuse the pun) way my post was being quoted as racist.

**phyllis** · 07-18-2005, 06:45 PM

...gotta love it...we've gone from politically incorrect t-shirts...clear to state sponsored terrorism, and many things in-between

Rahn · 07-18-2005, 07:06 PM

I love people who say they arn't the least bit prejudice and hate people who are.

Believe it or not, in some places in the world it's actually smart to be prejudice. I call it being cautious. I mean what's the big deal if I choose not to go into a certain part of town, that's mostly blacks because I would get ****ing robbed or jumped. Now are the people who do this to me some sort prejudice too? Of course.

Take your head out of the sand or get out of your house once in a while. Leave your hippy commune and experience different parts of the world. Let's see how "prejudice" you are by the end of your trip(s).

**DudeMan** · 07-18-2005, 07:06 PM

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Originally Posted by improbablecause

Yes it is wrong to state that "fact". Because it ignores the true factors involved in their criminality. What is there to debate when somebody tells you: "black people are murderers and thieves"? It's sheer ignorance at it's finest.

i have said my peice on this, and no hard feelings but im not accepting this as remotly relevent to what i actually said...

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You yourself stated that where you grew up consists mainly of blacks and Muslims, is it any surprise that the majority will commit the majority of crimes? And then there is always the issue of racial profiling. Is it any surprise that the racially profiled (who are watched closer than everybody else) is caught committing crimes?

no i mentioned i am warey because they are caught doing more crime... i still dont see your point here, you are arguing that i am not allowed to say ill watch out for groups of young black males, because where i am from they committ the most crime. then you make the connection that there are alot of them there, and so its no surprise they commit more crime in the area...

well quite, i didnt say that in the middle of a rich white populated area where old ladies with poisoned teabags commit the most crime i will watch out for black boys.... infact i never said i would watch out for all black people... this is your assumption, and again you telling me what i am infering, when i truthfully tell you my situation in Newham London.... do you see my point... i do not pretend all black people are evil and criminals.... thats ridiculous, but when i see a "congregation of young black men in Newham", i am warey. see the difference from what you said i say.... if you cant, im at a loss..

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Where I live, the wonderful Greater Toronto Area (once again, the most ethnically/culturally diverse city in the world), tell me: should I fear the blacks? What about in a well-to-do area of the UK where everybody is rich? If no, maybe it's not really the skin-colour that matters.

ahhh... here we are... precisely, you are now taking into account the context of the quote and you have come to the right conclusion. if im in the countryside, everyone says good morning to me in the mornings, which as a Londoner i find intimidating, because unless we know a person, we dont all speak to eachother on the street.

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There's a difference between keeping the peace and infringing on personal freedoms. You may not care if officers raid your personal belongings, but many others do. There is a line that should not be crossed by the law. I'll outline an extreme scenario for you.

Terrorists are stuffing an undetectable explosive device into their butts. The only way to ensure people do not have these "butt bombs" is to physically strip the person and reach up into their butt to feel for it. An officer stops you. You have nothing to hide, right? You have no bomb up your butt. Let them search you!

I realize how extreme this idea is. But this is how some people feel when they are forced to do something against their will, something they have no control over, something that is not necessary. Day after day, somebody reaches up that butt of theirs "just to make sure". They are inconvenienced and vilified because they happen to match some silly profile... and they did nothing to deserve this treatment.

ok its horrible some people may have their bags searched (which by the way i have not seen once yet in any tube station.

but you are right your example is soo far fetched its not helpful, if things were that bad, we would have alot more to discuss, the fact is my head is staying in reality, where some people may be watched a little closer, when my brother went to america, (a white man) he was kept in customs with everyone else till all were cleared throughly... i honestly dont see this HIGH level of discrimination... but thats me personally, and again i would say, in the wake of these terror attacks, with the profiles as they are, you expect us to do nothing.

your own description of the suicide bombers as deprived and uneducated is wrong (proved so y the 9/11 attackers and the London bombers.) , so an aptitude test isnt sufficient.

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You know, I think it's so funny how people imagine these terrorists would be completely obvious about their affiliations. When arriving in the country, people imagine them to have that beard, to have that Muslim garb, to have that ticking backpack. It's absolutely hilarious to me. These people, the terrorists, aren't stupid. Anything to hinder the chances of a terrorist act from succeeding will be corrected somehow. Shaving that beard, wearing casual clothing, speaking perfect English, whatever.

#
yes and this is why our sole policy for finding terrorists is listening to the back packs of muslim men with beards and wearing a rhobe.... oh please, millions of pounds of explosive technology comming up with the bomb sniffer, highly organised survailance that has thwarted at least 8 terror attacks in london. the policy of putting conductors back on the bus, to check for the hidden packages... yes ofcourse, we are just concentrating on what you said... im sorry but this is very blanket, and IMO wrong.

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I bet the London bombing succeeded because the terrorists didn't "look" the part of a typical terrorist at all.

i bet they succeeded because the underground is literally unprotectable at the moment, and for no other reason. you describe this typical terrorist, and apply it to us, i have already said mohammed siddique khan was being investigated by MI5, but was fiven the all clear... i bet i have not been investigated by the MI5 i wander why....

please do not apply your steriotype to my views.. it dont work,

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Do you suspect any of your so-called friends (or acquaintances) to be terrorists? I mean, they obviously fit the profile right? You should really sic the MI5 on them and be sure to stay away from them. They are dangerous.

yes i hear the sarchasm, and honestly no, but for the same reason you dont suspect your girlfriend of cheating, because you know a hell of alot more than any polic officer or stranger does... even this isnt fool proof though... kind of a strange proposition given the the london bombers were somebodied frined, boyfriend etc etc.

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Christianity has been around for a long time and has done a lot of horrendous things in the past. Refer to the various historical atrocities committed in the name of Christ if you really want to compare religious fanaticism at it's worst.

the same can be said about any religion, and back when the christians were killing all in sight, i bet the other guys were looking for christans to be sure they were not doing anything untoward. the fact is, here now, we are faced with the islamic extremist, and as such we shal look for the islamic extremist.

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Personally, I think all religions are messed up and cause more bad than good. But that's me, and I know many others will think differently. However, I abhor the idea of centering out specific individuals based on their religion. It just isn't right.

i am athiest, im with karl marx, religion being the opium of the masses... i think its a game of chinese whispers,

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And I know you don't outright say all Muslims are evil. But can you honestly tell me that, when you're laughing at some stupid anti-Muslim joke, you're thinking: "Oh boy, that is so funny... but only when it's referring specifically to the terrorists!"? If not, then you've just been unjustly prejudiced against all Muslims.

yeah, spot on, however, i laugh at people who make jokes about fat people too, my god i should be kicking the crap out of myself,

oh and can you tell me you have never laughed at an Irish joke, how bout the one about the big book of british smiles..... a joke is a joke, and whilst jokes are totally racist sometimes, laughing at them does not make you a racist.

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Really? Well, looking at history (I hope you've done some research since the last paragraph!), Christians have slain heathens left and right for the past two millennia. Clearly, Christianity creates psychotic, fanatical murderers who will do anything in the name of religion. I mean, history proves it.

(More sarcasm.)

absolutly, and as such christianity has evolved, women are not second class citizens as they still are under the islamic culture, and yes even in my country in the west islamic women still (not all) believe me are superior.

when christains were killing witches on the witch hunt, it was the majority of them, and in any event, the religion that allowed this had questions to be answered, now they have been answered and ill stand by my comment, islam has serious questions that need answering.

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To each his own. I felt that I was mainly rewording my previous posts to him. It was not meant in offense, and I did not call him stupid in any way. It is sometimes difficult decyphering my writing, so it's understandable if somebody doesn't get what I'm saying.

ok i should have kept my mouth shut anyway, im sure if cing was mad he would have said..

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I really can't say anything that will sway you from your stance. I don't feel a huge number of unwilling participants should have to suffer for anything they have no control over. You see things differently. Agree to disagree is the only option, really.

ill agree, it is strange though i wander, and im not trying to patronise as it is going to see, i wander if you had been attacked, in your home town with people you know getting hurt, how much your argument would change from... do nothing special to the group that fits the descriptions of those comitting attacks, to do something to help catch some of these vile barstards...

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Err... I think you are really, really misquoting him. I had no idea who "Lord Stevens" was, so I did a Google search and found this article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

I'm assuming that is the one you're talking about. Nowhere does it say they used racial/religious profiling. In fact, he says something to the contrary:

"In my view the London bombers will not fit the caricatured Al Qaeda fanatic from some backward village in Algeria or Afghanistan.

They will be apparently ordinary British citizens, young men conservatively and cleanly dressed and probably with some higher education."

Guess such discrimination doesn't really work after all.

erm, i dont think i was, i offered the method in my own wods because he (and like he would) did not elaborate on how we are getting them. but isnt it fuunny that even the terrorists of 7/7 were investigated... i did say in my words, and i think your follow up is unfair...

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I really hate it when people say how "things were worse before" as a justification for bad things done today. It's a fallacy and I don't see any reason I shoul

07-18-2005, 06:45 PM	#88 (permalink)
phyllis Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dayton Ohio Age: 40 Posts: 1,502	Re: Politically incorrect Tshirt ...gotta love it...we've gone from politically incorrect t-shirts...clear to state sponsored terrorism, and many things in-between __________________

07-18-2005, 07:06 PM	#89 (permalink)
Rahn Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: USA Age: 23 Posts: 127	Re: Politically incorrect Tshirt I love people who say they arn't the least bit prejudice and hate people who are. Believe it or not, in some places in the world it's actually smart to be prejudice. I call it being cautious. I mean what's the big deal if I choose not to go into a certain part of town, that's mostly blacks because I would get ****ing robbed or jumped. Now are the people who do this to me some sort prejudice too? Of course. Take your head out of the sand or get out of your house once in a while. Leave your hippy commune and experience different parts of the world. Let's see how "prejudice" you are by the end of your trip(s).

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