Marine shot by cousin to avoid Iraq

Spoon™ · 07-15-2005, 04:13 PM

I figured i'd ask for your thoughts on this:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/15/mar....ap/index.html

CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- A young Marine who feared returning to Iraq persuaded his cousin to shoot him in the leg, then told police he was hit by random gang gunfire, authorities said.

The shooting early Saturday was meant to keep 19-year-old Moises Hernandez from going back to Iraq, prosecutors said.

He was charged with filing a false police report. His cousin, Juan Hernandez, 19, faces a felony weapons charge.

Moises Hernandez is back with his unit at Camp Pendleton, California, and the Marines are investigating the incident. His unit had returned June 5 from a six-month deployment that included a month in Iraq.

The man's father, Ray Hernandez, said his son also had been sent to Indonesia after the devastating tsunami in December. The father said his son had seen death up close and was troubled by nightmares when he returned home.

"Whatever he experienced changed him totally," the senior Hernandez said.

Now, i've experienced combat myself. I was over in Afghanistan for about six months. War can be a horrible thing, and it changes your perception on life permanently. Even the strongest both physically and mentally cannot always deal with the stresses involved. It's hard, and I understand completely (as should anyone else for that matter.) With that said, how do you guys feel about situations such as the one mentioned above?

**leejo** · 07-15-2005, 04:18 PM

First of all Spoon, thanks for your service.

I think this Marine has behaved shamefully. If he was dead-set against going back to Iraq then he should have said so and accepted his punishment. But he lied and tried to weasel his way out of his duty. The Marines surely won't tolerate that.

Spoon™ · 07-15-2005, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

First of all Spoon, thanks for your service.

Thank you.

Quote:

I think this Marine has behaved shamefully. If he was dead-set against going back to Iraq then he should have said so and accepted his punishment. But he lied and tried to weasel his way out of his duty. The Marines surely won't tolerate that.

I agree that the route he took to try and avoid deployment was shamefully done. He should have sought help from a psychiatrist at the Naval hospital instead. There are better ways to deal with your problems, and professional help is one of those ways. Now I have been out of the Marines for three years, and i'm not up to par on how the Marine Corps is dealing with situations like this. More specifically, how his chain of command deals with this type of thing. I know in my old unit, if you had emotional problems you were ostracized by the majority of your platoon and considered a "____bird." I hope things have changed since those days, especially considering that the scenario of someone becoming emotionally distressed is more common now, with the wars going on n' all. Having yourself shot is, well, stupid but it's also probably the poorest choice to make in this situation. He should have informed his chain of command that he wanted to seek out professional help because of emotional distress. Let the docs decide from there...

**leejo** · 07-15-2005, 04:43 PM

If having emotional problems gets you ostracized by your platoon, having yourself shot because of your emotional problems will sure do the trick too. Crazy AND stupid...dibs on being THAT guy's battle buddy.

Anyway, I understand that this is tough stuff and I well remember being a little kid at summer camp and feely totally alone and miserable. Now add in that you know you're not going home for at least a year, your friends are getting killed and maimed in front of you, and people are trying to kill you. Not to mention all the things you see. No, that's probably a lot worse than summer camp.

I feel for the guy, and I hope that he gets help and can move on someday, but he deserves punishment for his poor decision and I bet he'll get it. Furthermore, now he's going to drag that dd214 around with him forever. It was a life-changing boner of a decision.

**CingularDuality** · 07-15-2005, 04:47 PM

I think he should be charged with Article 87 of the UCMJ: Missing a Movement

Quote:

“Any person subject to this chapter who through neglect or design misses the movement of a ship, aircraft, or unit with which he is required in the course of duty to move shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

Elements.

(1) That the accused was required in the course of duty to move with a ship, aircraft or unit;

(2) That the accused knew of the prospective movement of the ship, aircraft or unit;

(3) That the accused missed the movement of the ship, aircraft or unit; and

(4) That the accused missed the movement through design or neglect.

Maximum punishment.

(1) Design. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 2 years.

(2) Neglect. Bad-conduct discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year.

Should be easy to prove that he intentionally had someone shoot him for the express design of not rotating back to Iraq with his unit.

You can also tack on Article 107-False official statement, Article 115-Malingering, and, of course, Article 134-General Article (conduct unbecoming a Marine).

Should be good for some brig time and a big chicken dinner...

=Sarc= · 07-15-2005, 05:01 PM

Wow, he's not that bright. Maybe he really shouldn't be in the Marines. Would you want him watching your back? He wasted public services trying to get out of a promise to serve his country.

He should have at least come up with a less suspicious story like he accidentally shot himself in the leg. Kind of like that guy talking about gun safety and shooting himself in the leg... ok, bad joke.

**Meat_Drapes** · 07-15-2005, 05:03 PM

He deserves brig time , reduction in rank , and forfiture of pay.
I have NO PITY for those that cannot handle it. I have been to the Gulf 4 times for 2 different wars and just do not have a shred of sympathy in my hardended little heart.
BOO F@#ing HOO.... you enlist... do your job.

18 years in the Corps... many to go.

Meat Drapes

**leejo** · 07-15-2005, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =Sarc=

Wow, he's not that bright. Maybe he really shouldn't be in the Marines.

Sarcy sarcy sarcy, that's why he picked the Marines in the first place.

Spoon™ · 07-15-2005, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meat_Drapes

He deserves brig time , reduction in rank , and forfiture of pay.
I have NO PITY for those that cannot handle it. I have been to the Gulf 4 times for 2 different wars and just do not have a shred of sympathy in my hardended little heart.
BOO F@#ing HOO.... you enlist... do your job.

18 years in the Corps... many to go.

Meat Drapes

I agree with what you said. However, this day in age you have to take in to consideration that the "new" Marine is one much softer than the Marines of old. In today's society, we have pampered individuals that want to play Marine, yet don't want to follow through with what being a Marine is all about. It's unfortunate, but it's nothing but the truth. I can't put an exact number on how many "new" Marines i've come across that are just going through the motions, and not really putting out. Quite a few though, and most of that group had joined just to impress others and slide into a set of Dress Blues. That's too bad, because those Marines are responsible for the lives of their fellow Marines as well. I knew a few like that in my old platoon, and I always gave them hell when it came to Field Day and such things.

**CingularDuality** · 07-15-2005, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

Sarcy sarcy sarcy, that's why he picked the Marines in the first place.

No other branch of service has such high standards for enlistment...

**CingularDuality** · 07-15-2005, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

You can also tack on Article 107-False official statement, Article 115-Malingering, and, of course, Article 134-General Article (conduct unbecoming a Marine).

Should be good for some brig time and a big chicken dinner...

Looked up the maximum punishment for malingering:

Quote:

(3) Intentional self-inflicted injury. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 5 years.

(4) Intentional self-inflicted injury in a hostile fire pay zone or in time of war. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 10 years.

That should be sufficient right there... 10 years in the brig because it's during a time of war? I'd be satisfied if he finished his contract in the brig without pay or allowances, and then was dishonorably discharged.

Spoon™ · 07-15-2005, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

I'd be satisfied if he finished his contract in the brig without pay or allowances, and then was dishonorably discharged.

Damn right. I concur 101%

**leejo** · 07-15-2005, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

No other branch of service has such high standards for enlistment...

You jarheads are just precious.

And crazy!

Spoon™ · 07-15-2005, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

You jarheads are just precious.

And crazy!

Meh, i've mellowed out alot over the past three years of being a Veteran. But yes, at one point in time, in my active duty days, I was crazy.

**USN_Squid** · 07-15-2005, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

That should be sufficient right there... 10 years in the brig because it's during a time of war? I'd be satisfied if he finished his contract in the brig without pay or allowances, and then was dishonorably discharged.

Sounds about right.

07-15-2005, 04:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
Spoon™ Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: North Carolina, USA Age: 28 Posts: 28	Marine shot by cousin to avoid Iraq I figured i'd ask for your thoughts on this: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/15/mar....ap/index.html CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- A young Marine who feared returning to Iraq persuaded his cousin to shoot him in the leg, then told police he was hit by random gang gunfire, authorities said. The shooting early Saturday was meant to keep 19-year-old Moises Hernandez from going back to Iraq, prosecutors said. He was charged with filing a false police report. His cousin, Juan Hernandez, 19, faces a felony weapons charge. Moises Hernandez is back with his unit at Camp Pendleton, California, and the Marines are investigating the incident. His unit had returned June 5 from a six-month deployment that included a month in Iraq. The man's father, Ray Hernandez, said his son also had been sent to Indonesia after the devastating tsunami in December. The father said his son had seen death up close and was troubled by nightmares when he returned home. "Whatever he experienced changed him totally," the senior Hernandez said. Now, i've experienced combat myself. I was over in Afghanistan for about six months. War can be a horrible thing, and it changes your perception on life permanently. Even the strongest both physically and mentally cannot always deal with the stresses involved. It's hard, and I understand completely (as should anyone else for that matter.) With that said, how do you guys feel about situations such as the one mentioned above?

07-15-2005, 04:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,524	Re: Marine shot by cousin to avoid Iraq First of all Spoon, thanks for your service. I think this Marine has behaved shamefully. If he was dead-set against going back to Iraq then he should have said so and accepted his punishment. But he lied and tried to weasel his way out of his duty. The Marines surely won't tolerate that.

07-15-2005, 04:43 PM	#4 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,524	Re: Marine shot by cousin to avoid Iraq If having emotional problems gets you ostracized by your platoon, having yourself shot because of your emotional problems will sure do the trick too. Crazy AND stupid...dibs on being THAT guy's battle buddy. Anyway, I understand that this is tough stuff and I well remember being a little kid at summer camp and feely totally alone and miserable. Now add in that you know you're not going home for at least a year, your friends are getting killed and maimed in front of you, and people are trying to kill you. Not to mention all the things you see. No, that's probably a lot worse than summer camp. I feel for the guy, and I hope that he gets help and can move on someday, but he deserves punishment for his poor decision and I bet he'll get it. Furthermore, now he's going to drag that dd214 around with him forever. It was a life-changing boner of a decision.

07-15-2005, 05:01 PM	#6 (permalink)
=Sarc= Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 4,460	Re: Marine shot by cousin to avoid Iraq Wow, he's not that bright. Maybe he really shouldn't be in the Marines. Would you want him watching your back? He wasted public services trying to get out of a promise to serve his country. He should have at least come up with a less suspicious story like he accidentally shot himself in the leg. Kind of like that guy talking about gun safety and shooting himself in the leg... ok, bad joke. __________________ JO Guides & Tutorials Team Element - It's who you game with.

07-15-2005, 05:03 PM	#7 (permalink)
Meat_Drapes Join Date: May 2003 Location: Augusta GA Age: 40 Posts: 159	Re: Marine shot by cousin to avoid Iraq He deserves brig time , reduction in rank , and forfiture of pay. I have NO PITY for those that cannot handle it. I have been to the Gulf 4 times for 2 different wars and just do not have a shred of sympathy in my hardended little heart. BOO F@#ing HOO.... you enlist... do your job. 18 years in the Corps... many to go. Meat Drapes

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