Pokerface

Best. God. Ever.

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Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
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TheFeniX

Let's just say over that centuries, Jews have been held in a less than holy light by Christians.

Yes, I demand that a God that wants my loyalty should be held to the same standards that he wants to apply to me.

That child would be justified in "throwing a tantrum" if his parents routinely told him not to watch TV and yet they came home everyday and watched TV for 8 hours. Religion is the ultimate "Do as I say, not as I do" lesson.

I've never said otherwise.I wouldn't have to talk about Christianity if Christians would worry more about their own faith and quit bothering mine. It's hard to ignore when it's thrown in your face 24/7.

This whole thread exists because Christians are trying to push their way into the class-room and forced children to learn about Jesus. So, as a Heathen™ I'm going to fight against it tooth and nail.

I damn sure wouldn't want my kid learning some completely irrational idea of: "Since scientists can't figure out X, we'll say X = God, praise JESUS we're scientists!"

But the point remains, you take percieved insults about God as insults to you personally. But just because I know the bible is fiction doesn't mean I can't use it as evidence myself.

If the Easter Bunny's followers were knocking at my door trying to sell me eggs, on TV saying that their eggs are the best and anyone who disagrees is evil, and trying to force my kids in school to worship their eggs: then yes, I'd argue against the Easter Bunny.

Christians are evangelists by nature. It's the whole "spread the word" deal.

What I am interested is shutting down those who think because they worship Jesus, they have some kind of moral high-ground on those who don't. The Christian religion is just as violent and vengeful as any other religion out there.

I'm also interested in making sure people realize that Creationism isn't comparable to Evolution at all.

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Darkstar68

Amen - Also, if "creationism" is so important to the believers - would you really want to rely on a public school teacher to get it right? I mean, somethings just shoult taught at home.

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Wulfyn

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!


no seriously guys....


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!


ID is an idea. Evolution is not an idea, it is a scientific theory. As I went to great lengths to explain (very slow day at work) evolution can be used to make predictions about the future, and thus can be used to work things out. The concept that creatures evolved into what we are now is speculative because, as leejo pointed out, for the same reasons as ID it cannot be proven or disproven.

However you thought we got here in the long term matters for naught. Evolution is a branch of science just as much as cosmology, genetics, or neuroscience is (in fact it's more of a science than the degree I did is but don't tell leejo, he'll just heckle me thinking he has some sort of ownership of mathematics round here ). Intelligent Design (no matter how true it might be) is not.

QED.

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Trooper

okay if some of you are against this who idea....are you also against the pledge of allegence in our schools too.....not to change the subject.

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

tau_neutrino

I have no problem with the pledge if you remove the religious reference in it (return it to pre-Cold War version). Or maybe allow a pause for optional reference to deities of a person's choice (e.g. invisible pink unicorn, flying spaghetti monster). But I think it's useless to make children have to recite it.

Karkianman101

I am not against the concept being in school. Thats nationalism. What I am against is the God referance and the fact that its mandatory.

Santa

Hmm, not mandatory where i am. All thats mandatory is to stand in respect, but you dont have to say it. In fact, no one in my first period actually says it.

Trooper

tau i dint know that i just looked that up


http://www.flagday.org/Pages/PledgeHistory.html

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

Wolfie

You know, you simply can just omit the words "under god" when reciting the pledge. Nobody is going to penalize you for that or make it mandatory that you recite each word of the pledge......

CingularDuality

That's what I did every day during mandatory recitation of the pledge (that I later found out was illegally being mandated).

I just used the original form of the pledge, instead of the one altered by the Xian right during the cold war...

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Santa

Only reason it was altered was as a symbol of defiance againt communist russia. Communism, at first, hated religion and god because the government couldnt control them as well. Then, it was an interesting way to get the message out that we disliked communism. Now, it seems kinda pointless and we oughta just change it back.

TheFeniX

These people don't really care about Creationism: they can teach their kid all the hocus-pocus and voodoo magic they want when they force them through church, Sunday school, and home sessions. What they really care about is "Scoring one against science."

They take evolution as a direct insult to their teachings. "But mommy, our biology teacher says man evolved over the course of millions of years and the universe is billions of years old." "THAT MAN IS THE DEVIL!" Seriously though, they don't want their kids questioning their faith. Religion (not just Christianity) is in the business of ignorance. Don't know, don't question.

The other reason (which I've laready hit upon) would be that Christians are evangelists by nature. The whole religion is about spreading the word to save the wicked. They don't realize that there are many people out there who don't want to be saved. And when they do realize it, it's because they are just poor confused souls.

So by getting creationism taught in schools, they get one step closer to getting what they really want: school sponsored prayer. It's much easier to indoctrinate youths than it is adults. So the younger they get them, the better.

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Trooper

what the crap are you talking about.......the reason we people want this tuaght is school is becuase why should only evolution be taught, if the kids are going to learn they should at least have a choice.....and since there is that whole law against church and state.....i dont think school sponcerd prayer will be happening any time soon........not wanting the youth to queston our faith, if you would know any thing about faith its all about questioning...to question means you actually want to know and are thinking about what you believe........

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

tau_neutrino

Because only evolution is backed up by huge amounts of data. Creation theories based on religions will have to provide data before they are taught to schoolchildren. However, if they are to be taught, the students MUST be made to understand that there is no/little evidence of the truth of these theories (and creation theories from multiple religions -- including now-defunct ones should be taught to provide multiple views).