Sex and Kids - Page 2

**CingularDuality** · 03-12-2004, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =luna=

"If a woman changes her mind and wants to become pregnant, a reversal procedure is available, but it is very difficult to perform and requires an experienced surgeon. Subsequent pregnancy rates after reversal are between 20% and 84%, depending on the surgical skill, the age of the woman, and, to a lesser degree, her weight and the length of time between the tubal ligation and the reversal procedure. Not all insurance carriers cover the cost of reversal."

http://www.healthandage.com/Home/gc=29!gid6=9109

I believe this is because a cheaper and less effective method is almost always used the first time a woman wants to reverse her tubal...

**luna** · 03-12-2004, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revan

Thinking about it...

It wouldn't be so bad to have poor people having children. If the whole of your system beit welfare or other crucial systems a lot less privatised. Look at it from this perspective.

If you had a central health service which offeres free healthcare to all, poor people would not have to have so much strain put on the little money they have to raise the healthy child.

If you had a central education system which offered free education to PhD level to all, poor people could get their child to study and become better then they are with great future prospects.

These two elements are necessary to brake the loop. This is the only way that even poor people on welfare can ensure that their child can become an asset to society. What's more such a chils may be able to avoid the trap of remaining uneducated and poor and living of welfare like his/her parents.

If you think I am talking about some utopia system that would never work you are wrong, UK or Canade all have free healthcare systems in place. Croatia also has a free education system for all its citizens. and not just a basic education but you get it free even if you wan to get a masters degree. I do not know much about other countries but no doubt alot of them have such central systems in place and I believe that is the one sure way to give poor people a chance to get somewhere or at least to ensure their children can get a good shot at life without falling into the poverty trap just because they come from a poor family.

Here's where I get confused. Here in my state, if you are poor and either have a dependent child or are a dependent, you are entitled to state assisted healthcare. All doctor's appointments are paid for, 100%. All prescriptions, 100%. Also, if you fall under the "disadvantaged" category you can get federal and state grants to go to college for at *least* 4 years, if not more. All of that being said, it astounds me how many folks don't take advantage of the structure already in place.

**DudeMan** · 03-12-2004, 05:29 PM

i am glad to see that the public at large here do not agree with the childish standpoint given in the beginning.

i Think the Uk has a great system and now that education is not totally free as it was i believe it is even better. i will be paying for my next generation working class chilldren to have a better education than i have to try and close the gap between the rich ponse and the poor guy. and everey univeristy student around the coiuntry is doing the same. takes alot of the education bill off the state in regards to tax and more of tax payers money can go to the old people who live in our country.

people scrounging off benefits is not a problem solved by surgery and the threat of liberty taken away it is solved by stricter security put in place toi stop scroungers. the United Kingdom has recently put in place a scheme where they give you money and allow you 6 months to find work. if you fail to do this they will still give you money and either put you into a training scheme or find you any job they can to get the ball moving.

if you fail to stick to the job or training course they can take away all benefits. and that is true, i was amazed i thought we were very crappy at this kind of thing, but this is happeneing more and more around the country now. and good on them.. it sorts out the people who arer lazy from the people who are down on luck

god damit though i tell you people in western society are getting picky, they refuse to work here and there because the jobs are dirty etc etc... not talking about lap dancers... i was outr of work a total of 3 days and i had a job that payed crap and i was standing on the cold street directing tohe public to bus services. 12 hour shifts... work is work...suck iot up and look around if your job is crap.

Revan · 03-13-2004, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =luna=

Here's where I get confused. Here in my state, if you are poor and either have a dependent child or are a dependent, you are entitled to state assisted healthcare. All doctor's appointments are paid for, 100%. All prescriptions, 100%. Also, if you fall under the "disadvantaged" category you can get federal and state grants to go to college for at *least* 4 years, if not more. All of that being said, it astounds me how many folks don't take advantage of the structure already in place.

I was not sure of how your state benefits work but it seems that regardless of it all you do have options to, with alot of hard work and by bringing up your children well, get your children set for the future. The only problem would then be people on the poverty line. Those who do not qualify for all the benefits. Plus rich people have better options than the poor. My main coment was that all people, rich and poor alike, in croatia get exactly the same education. No one comes from a better school or has a degree which is valued more than the other.

I must say I would be astounded too, to find out that all the benefits that are available are not taken up by citizens in need. Perhaps there is another very important part which we all seem to have forgotten about. The upbringing of such children. Just because all these things are available, if a child does not have a drive to excell it won't matter. Not to be discriminatory but alot of crime comes from poor and dislocated families. Perhaps there is more to be said about the quality of parenthood given than of the fact that such a family is poor.

**CingularDuality** · 03-13-2004, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revan

Perhaps there is more to be said about the quality of parenthood given than of the fact that such a family is poor.

I believe that this is absolutely true.

**DudeMan** · 03-13-2004, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revan

. Not to be discriminatory but alot of crime comes from poor and dislocated families. Perhaps there is more to be said about the quality of parenthood given than of the fact that such a family is poor.

this is true howeveer this b ecomes a questionon our society again. crime is not the first choice of most people and you will find that actually alot of the poor families with chilldren to support often turn to crime to make ends meet and to be able to afford the holiday that the TV insists you have every year.

every year television insists that you have a mountin of preasents by your christmas tree because that makes your kids happy, and that you take them to a once in a lifetime trip to florida becausse otherwise they will never think of you as a cool dad etc etc.. we have all seen the adverts and im not attributing all crime to this but it would seem that alot of people do desperate things too get their hands on more money.

attemps have been made in England to combat this, a scheme where if you dont earn the cap amount and you have a chilld you still get money on top of your wages to bring your earnings up.

i am not sure about crime rates etc etc it only started this year, but i suspect it may turn some people away from crime.

RYN · 03-13-2004, 03:16 PM

My main coment was that all people, rich and poor alike, in croatia get exactly the same education. No one comes from a better school or has a degree which is valued more than the other.

(Said in Dr. Phil's voice)

"And how's that workin out for ya?"

(Said in RYNO's voice)

"Wow equal education and ethnic cleansing....doesn't get much better than that.

Revan · 03-13-2004, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RYN

My main coment was that all people, rich and poor alike, in croatia get exactly the same education. No one comes from a better school or has a degree which is valued more than the other.

(Said in Dr. Phil's voice)

"And how's that workin out for ya?"

(Said in RYNO's voice)

"Wow equal education and ethnic cleansing....doesn't get much better than that.

well Ryn, 5% of population of ex Yugoslavia was on the side of the germans and italians during WWII. 5% of population in todays yugoslavia did horible things, that does not account for 95% of population who adhere to laws and are valued members of society. Besides, it was not croatioan nor serbian people who did the ethnic cleansing but the extremists who were looking for excuse. I suggest you get your facts right first before you start accusing hard working citizens of another country of horible things.

RYN · 03-13-2004, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revan

well Ryn, 5% of population of ex Yugoslavia was on the side of the ,germans and italians during WWII. 5% of population in todays yugoslavia did horible things, that does not account for 95% of population who adhere to laws and are valued members of society. Besides, it was not croatioan nor serbian people who did the ethnic cleansing but the extremists who were looking for excuse. I suggest you get your facts right first before you start accusing hard working citizens of another country of horible things.

Sorry to go off topic...but were you there in , 92, 93 94 and 99? Were you a soldier caught amongst three sides of monsters who thought it was feasible to brutally elimenate each other? To murder childeren while they slept without sense or reason? I was....I picked up things no human being should ever have to pick up...I have an opinion to the past and future of the Balkans which I think I am qualified to put forward after risking my life for a country that had nothing to with mine, economically or socially. Only out of the kindness of our hearts did we go there to stop people from slaughtering each other. Sarejevo, Bihac, Medak, Kosovo...I could go on...True, not all people of the Balkans are hand in hand with the devil...but it was and is enough to have an international military presence there for a very long time to clean up the mess of un-exploded munitions and to investigate the hundereds and hundereds of still hidden mass graves sites of innocent people.

Well the 5% you speak of is what I saw...drunken un-professional kids who slaugtered at every whim....the other 95% I saw...were in holes with their hands tied behind their backs.

**DudeMan** · 03-13-2004, 05:12 PM

hold on a second are you linking the actions of these people to the fact that their government gave them the same education where no degree was valued higher than the next, because if you are RYN that is very short sighted.

The United Kingdom has been trying to integrate that system for a long time and while they have not got all the creases ironed out we dont goround murderuing everyone.

forgive me if i am wrong but wasnt those countries part of the soviet union, because the whole region went from being economically better off under socialism to being economically worse but democratically free-ish...

and alot of the eethnic cleansing and such was attributed to the other ethnic people brining the country down... same thing happened in Germany and you cant equate that to a free system of education for all. that isnt right....

i get the feeling i may have missed the plot as i didnt think anyone could come to such a drastic standpoint over such an issue... if i have missd the point tell me... but if i am on the money shot, then there is problems here.

**Wolfie** · 03-13-2004, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

i am glad to see that the public at large here do not agree with the childish standpoint given in the beginning.

Okay wiseguy

Explain to me why I have to work 12-14 hours a day to raise little johnny just because his folks got frisky while on welfare?

They can do the responsible thing and not have sex. Why should I be punished for their irresponsible actions?

**DudeMan** · 03-14-2004, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

Okay wiseguy

Explain to me why I have to work 12-14 hours a day to raise little johnny just because his folks got frisky while on welfare?

They can do the responsible thing and not have sex. Why should I be punished for their irresponsible actions?

yeah sure question me, but my friend you can just go live in germany during the 1940's oh i hear iraq is looking for another good dictator.

right so now sex is the privalige of the rich and offspring are also that privalige... the way i see it the more my money goes to families in my country the less it goes to africa where the governments dont deserve charity.

**TheFeniX** · 03-14-2004, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

Okay wiseguy

Explain to me why I have to work 12-14 hours a day to raise little johnny just because his folks got frisky while on welfare?

They can do the responsible thing and not have sex. Why should I be punished for their irresponsible actions?

I don't think anyone would argue that the current well-fare system in America needs massive reform. I don't mind helping to pay to support a family whose dad/mom can't find work. If after 6 months, you haven't found SOME form of job, then TS, you aren't trying.

One issue is that it's easier to sit at home and collect a check than it is to work and collect the same or less. I wouldn't mind helping to support someone as long as he was working as minimum wage does not a family support.

Revan · 03-14-2004, 08:10 AM

now I'm thinking.. great, lets put all the poor people in the same pot.

You know not all poor people with children who are on welfare deserve to be spoken about like that. There are those who do work for a minimum wage and spend whole day away from their home and their kids do not get to see a parent for a whole day and end up finding guns at relative's places and so on and so forth.

I think there should be a distinct line drawn between poor people on welfare who are tryint to raise their children and want to be valued members of society. After all those people who have kids and are the worst scum who do pick their checks but use children just to increase their benefit eventually do end up losing the children who are taken into protective custody. There will always be people like that but you cannot take all of them and put the into the same pot. Anyhow what about those people who did work when they had a child and then lost their job?

RYN, I understand what you are saying and I do agree with you. I wasn't there and I sure wouldn't have been there. But you also have to understand that the places you are talking about are 300 miles away from croatia. These things did happen in croatia too but not to such a scale. Croatia simply was the second to get hit. If you look at the progression you will see that Slovenia got away lightly coz they got hit first. 22 days that is all it took. Croatia got sucked into it but Bosnia payed the price. These are the places you are talking about and those 95% of people who had equal education did pay the price but you cannot blame this on free and equal education. Those people I class as terrorists of the worst kind. Every country has them. And all they are looking for is excuse. I think that the systems we have in croatia and other countries are good ways of encouraging people to raise their kids the right way and that they themselves had the opportunity to get away from the poverty trap. You know I can honestly say we do not have a single individual who is homeless in croatia. I have never seen anyone begging on the streets. I thought for the early part of my life that these things only happen in the movies, but I see now that they actually happen in well developed countries too and I still cannot understand how is it that you have homeless (well lets say states) and croatia doesn't.

Wintermute · 03-14-2004, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

Okay wiseguy

Explain to me why I have to work 12-14 hours a day to raise little johnny just because his folks got frisky while on welfare?

They can do the responsible thing and not have sex. Why should I be punished for their irresponsible actions?

Why should little Johnny be punished because of his parents "irresponsible" actions? He didn't choose it, but he has to live it. He is bad off enough coming from a poor background, don't give him the extra punishment of being taken from his parents and either fostered or adopted.

Don't you believe the child is innocent and more important than either you, your money or the parents?

03-12-2004, 05:29 PM	#18 (permalink)
DudeMan Join Date: May 2003 Location: london England Age: 22 Posts: 3,258	Re: Sex and Kids i am glad to see that the public at large here do not agree with the childish standpoint given in the beginning. i Think the Uk has a great system and now that education is not totally free as it was i believe it is even better. i will be paying for my next generation working class chilldren to have a better education than i have to try and close the gap between the rich ponse and the poor guy. and everey univeristy student around the coiuntry is doing the same. takes alot of the education bill off the state in regards to tax and more of tax payers money can go to the old people who live in our country. people scrounging off benefits is not a problem solved by surgery and the threat of liberty taken away it is solved by stricter security put in place toi stop scroungers. the United Kingdom has recently put in place a scheme where they give you money and allow you 6 months to find work. if you fail to do this they will still give you money and either put you into a training scheme or find you any job they can to get the ball moving. if you fail to stick to the job or training course they can take away all benefits. and that is true, i was amazed i thought we were very crappy at this kind of thing, but this is happeneing more and more around the country now. and good on them.. it sorts out the people who arer lazy from the people who are down on luck god damit though i tell you people in western society are getting picky, they refuse to work here and there because the jobs are dirty etc etc... not talking about lap dancers... i was outr of work a total of 3 days and i had a job that payed crap and i was standing on the cold street directing tohe public to bus services. 12 hour shifts... work is work...suck iot up and look around if your job is crap.

03-13-2004, 03:16 PM	#22 (permalink)
RYN Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Originally from NF now in NB Age: 37 Posts: 267	Re: Sex and Kids My main coment was that all people, rich and poor alike, in croatia get exactly the same education. No one comes from a better school or has a degree which is valued more than the other. (Said in Dr. Phil's voice) "And how's that workin out for ya?" (Said in RYNO's voice) "Wow equal education and ethnic cleansing....doesn't get much better than that. __________________ "On My Commad, Unleash Hell" "And Let Slip The Dogs Of War"

03-13-2004, 05:12 PM	#25 (permalink)
DudeMan Join Date: May 2003 Location: london England Age: 22 Posts: 3,258	Re: Sex and Kids hold on a second are you linking the actions of these people to the fact that their government gave them the same education where no degree was valued higher than the next, because if you are RYN that is very short sighted. The United Kingdom has been trying to integrate that system for a long time and while they have not got all the creases ironed out we dont goround murderuing everyone. forgive me if i am wrong but wasnt those countries part of the soviet union, because the whole region went from being economically better off under socialism to being economically worse but democratically free-ish... and alot of the eethnic cleansing and such was attributed to the other ethnic people brining the country down... same thing happened in Germany and you cant equate that to a free system of education for all. that isnt right.... i get the feeling i may have missed the plot as i didnt think anyone could come to such a drastic standpoint over such an issue... if i have missd the point tell me... but if i am on the money shot, then there is problems here.

03-14-2004, 08:10 AM	#29 (permalink)
Revan Join Date: May 2003 Location: Kent; UK Age: 34 Posts: 190	Re: Sex and Kids now I'm thinking.. great, lets put all the poor people in the same pot. You know not all poor people with children who are on welfare deserve to be spoken about like that. There are those who do work for a minimum wage and spend whole day away from their home and their kids do not get to see a parent for a whole day and end up finding guns at relative's places and so on and so forth. I think there should be a distinct line drawn between poor people on welfare who are tryint to raise their children and want to be valued members of society. After all those people who have kids and are the worst scum who do pick their checks but use children just to increase their benefit eventually do end up losing the children who are taken into protective custody. There will always be people like that but you cannot take all of them and put the into the same pot. Anyhow what about those people who did work when they had a child and then lost their job? RYN, I understand what you are saying and I do agree with you. I wasn't there and I sure wouldn't have been there. But you also have to understand that the places you are talking about are 300 miles away from croatia. These things did happen in croatia too but not to such a scale. Croatia simply was the second to get hit. If you look at the progression you will see that Slovenia got away lightly coz they got hit first. 22 days that is all it took. Croatia got sucked into it but Bosnia payed the price. These are the places you are talking about and those 95% of people who had equal education did pay the price but you cannot blame this on free and equal education. Those people I class as terrorists of the worst kind. Every country has them. And all they are looking for is excuse. I think that the systems we have in croatia and other countries are good ways of encouraging people to raise their kids the right way and that they themselves had the opportunity to get away from the poverty trap. You know I can honestly say we do not have a single individual who is homeless in croatia. I have never seen anyone begging on the streets. I thought for the early part of my life that these things only happen in the movies, but I see now that they actually happen in well developed countries too and I still cannot understand how is it that you have homeless (well lets say states) and croatia doesn't.

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