Cleveland Indians?

.143 Beth© · 09-26-2005, 05:19 PM

What do you guys and gals think about the name of the Cleveland Indians? Is it racial, political incorrect, or just a mascot for a baseball team which happens to portray someone who was generally known to America as a fierce individual back in the day?

Turbo · 09-26-2005, 05:32 PM

Baseball mascot.

**Trooper** · 09-26-2005, 05:44 PM

i never really understood why people made such a big deal over mascots as indians, i would think it would be an honor and a great thing to be rememberd. but yah its just a mascot. there was a team in arizona that was all american indians and they called themselves the whiteys....everything is all white was their slogan...

**CingularDuality** · 09-26-2005, 07:09 PM

Sports team mascots are usually chosen for their competitive attributes, whether it's as a warrior, a hunter, a fighter or some other sort of character that comes out on top or excels in some way. Some Native American indians were known for their fighting prowess. The way some of them prepared for battle (war paint) contributes to their appeal as a mascot.

To me, I see it as an honor, not an insult, to use "indians" as mascots.

Now, if the question were about the Cleveland Indians' cartoon character specifically, I'd say it's much more likely to be found as offensive. A goofy (drunk-looking?) indian named "Chief Wahoo" is NOT projecting the kind of image normally desired in a sports mascot...

I'm also able to see the opposing viewpoint, however...

SmokingTarpan · 09-26-2005, 10:57 PM

I've never been able to see the viewpoint against the names of some of these teams. The idiot cartoon figures can go, as Cing said, but really, most of the names aren't racist. If it were something like the Seattle Sun Worshipping Savages, I'd have a problem. But names like the Indians, the Illini, the Chiefs... I'm sorry, but that's oversensitivity.

I work at the University of Illinois, where I graduated from college. Before I arrived, during my time there as a student, and now ongoing as an employee, the battle against the "racist" icon of the Chief/Illini here has raged. What I find funny is that I see very few Native American protesters out there at the rallies, but instead a lot of, well, uppity white causeheads. Even funnier is the fact that the people find something totally abhorent with using the name Illini, but nothing wrong with portraying the Irish as people that fight non-stop (Fighting Irish of Notre Dame)- and arguably drunk all the time at that.

In the end though, I don't really care what happens. Keep the name, change the name, do whatever. I'm just tired of hearing about such a silly thing.

.143 Beth© · 09-26-2005, 11:04 PM

Thanks now I have opposing arguments for sociology class.

.143 Beth© · 11-02-2005, 11:05 AM

What about the Atlanta braves or the Kansas City Chiefs?

Indians are respected as noble warriors, I think it is an honor.

**Pokerface** · 11-02-2005, 11:29 AM

Indeed, a fair amount of the college sports teams named after native tribes have the blessing of the local tribal council. It's a case of white people being over apologetic for the most part.

As it stands, I think Notre Dame's Fighting Irish is probably the worst name so far as degrading a population goes.

**Dirt013** · 11-02-2005, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

As it stands, I think Notre Dame's Fighting Irish is probably the worst name so far as degrading a population goes.

Funny thing is...no Irishman would care!

Dirt013

**Pokerface** · 11-02-2005, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirt013

Funny thing is...no Irishman would care!

Dirt013

I say we keep adding to it then until the Irish take notice. Other adjectives could get tacked on until we have the Short-Tempered Alcoholic Fighting Irish (with small wee-wees).

**kormendi** · 11-02-2005, 08:31 PM

Cleveland Indians? Didn't they used to have a pitcher named Wild Thing? Man, could he throw a fast ball!

09-26-2005, 05:19 PM	#1 (permalink)
.143 Beth© Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Orleans, LA Age: 21 Posts: 851	Cleveland Indians? What do you guys and gals think about the name of the Cleveland Indians? Is it racial, political incorrect, or just a mascot for a baseball team which happens to portray someone who was generally known to America as a fierce individual back in the day? __________________

09-26-2005, 05:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
Turbo Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mechanicsburg, PA Age: 26 Posts: 3,931	Re: Cleveland Indians? Baseball mascot. __________________

09-26-2005, 05:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
Trooper Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my wifes house......if she says i can Age: 25 Posts: 8,504	Re: Cleveland Indians? i never really understood why people made such a big deal over mascots as indians, i would think it would be an honor and a great thing to be rememberd. but yah its just a mascot. there was a team in arizona that was all american indians and they called themselves the whiteys....everything is all white was their slogan...

09-26-2005, 07:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
CingularDuality Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, USA Age: 33 Posts: 16,587	Re: Cleveland Indians? Sports team mascots are usually chosen for their competitive attributes, whether it's as a warrior, a hunter, a fighter or some other sort of character that comes out on top or excels in some way. Some Native American indians were known for their fighting prowess. The way some of them prepared for battle (war paint) contributes to their appeal as a mascot. To me, I see it as an honor, not an insult, to use "indians" as mascots. Now, if the question were about the Cleveland Indians' cartoon character specifically, I'd say it's much more likely to be found as offensive. A goofy (drunk-looking?) indian named "Chief Wahoo" is NOT projecting the kind of image normally desired in a sports mascot... I'm also able to see the opposing viewpoint, however... __________________ Become a supporting member! -- Shop at the Tactical Market! Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage." TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

09-26-2005, 10:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
SmokingTarpan Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,445	Re: Cleveland Indians? I've never been able to see the viewpoint against the names of some of these teams. The idiot cartoon figures can go, as Cing said, but really, most of the names aren't racist. If it were something like the Seattle Sun Worshipping Savages, I'd have a problem. But names like the Indians, the Illini, the Chiefs... I'm sorry, but that's oversensitivity. I work at the University of Illinois, where I graduated from college. Before I arrived, during my time there as a student, and now ongoing as an employee, the battle against the "racist" icon of the Chief/Illini here has raged. What I find funny is that I see very few Native American protesters out there at the rallies, but instead a lot of, well, uppity white causeheads. Even funnier is the fact that the people find something totally abhorent with using the name Illini, but nothing wrong with portraying the Irish as people that fight non-stop (Fighting Irish of Notre Dame)- and arguably drunk all the time at that. In the end though, I don't really care what happens. Keep the name, change the name, do whatever. I'm just tired of hearing about such a silly thing. __________________ [squadl] "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

09-26-2005, 11:04 PM	#6 (permalink)
.143 Beth© Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Orleans, LA Age: 21 Posts: 851	Re: Cleveland Indians? Thanks now I have opposing arguments for sociology class. __________________

11-02-2005, 11:05 AM	#7 (permalink)
.143 Beth© Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Orleans, LA Age: 21 Posts: 851	Re: Cleveland Indians? What about the Atlanta braves or the Kansas City Chiefs? Indians are respected as noble warriors, I think it is an honor. __________________

11-02-2005, 11:29 AM	#8 (permalink)
Pokerface Join Date: May 2003 Location: MD, USA Age: 29 Posts: 5,722	Re: Cleveland Indians? Indeed, a fair amount of the college sports teams named after native tribes have the blessing of the local tribal council. It's a case of white people being over apologetic for the most part. As it stands, I think Notre Dame's Fighting Irish is probably the worst name so far as degrading a population goes. __________________ NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues. Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality. <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

11-02-2005, 08:31 PM	#11 (permalink)
kormendi Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fairfax, Virginia Age: 27 Posts: 2,146	Re: Cleveland Indians? Cleveland Indians? Didn't they used to have a pitcher named Wild Thing? Man, could he throw a fast ball! __________________ Team Fortress 2 Admin \| NS Admin PM me if you have any questions/concerns regarding the server.

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