munchkin

Bah! I'm 14, dammit!
:P

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CingularDuality

And do you expect your opinion on war to be held in the same regard as a 30 year old military veteran?

Bottom line is that experience brings a lot of things to the table when you're discussing certain topics. If you're discussing war, a military veteran is going to have viewpoints that a young college student can simply know nothing about. It's not condescending, it's simply the way it is.

If we were to have a discussion about the liberal bias that exists in US collegiate staff members, then a young college student is going to have viewpoints that a military veteran might not have a clue about... That's just how it is.

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munchkin

Just to clear up any confusion - my previous post was entirely light-hearted and made in good humour.

My opinion on what being in a combat situation might be like? No. My opinion on war? Yes.

Fair enough - people are entitled to their judgements. I simply expect people to give my viewpoints and opinions the same time and effort/cursory glances that they give other people's.

I also expect people participating in a discussion (I'm speaking generally here) to take the time to recognise that factually based rebuttals of an argument are valid regardless of the age or experience of the author, as long as the facts are correct.

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CingularDuality

Yeah, I wasn't really directing that at you, just using your quote to make a point...

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SmokingTarpan

At what age and status, then, does an American's opinion become valid? Have you yet reached it? Would you consider his opinion invalid because of his age if he had agreed with you 100%? You seem to re-define your pre-requisites mid-stride, so what if he were a 1-year combat veteran?

You have to realize that, although you may consider his opinion invalid, the country does not. At 18 (so long as we're not a felon), we're allowed to vote on our leaders, and how the country is run. The government doesn't put any limitations such as military service, education or social status on that vote.

I also believe that your view of college students is innacurate. I don't recall being told why I should dislike President X during my biology, econ or social sciences classes. In fact, my professors did the best to provide me with both sides of the story to any topic, and let me make my own decisions. And as far as the press goes- where do you get your information on a daily basis? I'm certain you're not present to witness first-hand everything you have an opinion on.

Like Cing said, not everyone can have a valid opinion on a subject due to varying degrees of knowledge and experience. I certainly wouldn't expect a nulcear physicist to take my opinion on reactor seriously, nor do I believe a general in the military would do anything but laugh if I handed him a battle plan. But dismissing an opinion out of hand simply because of age or social status... that's just plain dangerous. If enough people get together and decide something, it won't matter if you believe they're unqualified.

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[squadl]
"I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

Karkianman101

I have no idea where you got that "run everything better" idea 0_o. Just because I think something is wrong or being controlled by the wrong person doesn't mean I think that I myself am fit for the job. If you could only criticize things that you were equal to or greater than then leaders and their decisions would go indisputed.
And again, he's a horrible person, and Iraq will be better off without him. But there are countries in Africa with much worse circumstances. And I'd personally fear Iran or North Korea with WMD's more than Saddam with them.

leejo

I think it's pretty obvious that any of us would prefer to be lead into battle by a 35 year old sergeant who'd seen lots of combat than a clever 17 year old with strong opinions about how the fight should be fought.

As a former 17 year old, 22 year-old, and yes even 27-year old, I can testify that dismissing the vast majority of their opinions is absolutely the correct course to take. I may respect you as a person and completely disagree with your entirely predictable opinions. Young, inexperienced people simply have no idea how much friction, incompetence, and evil there is in the world.

Young people fail to truly understand that many people who have twice or three times their experience can also be just as smart or smarter than they.

Finally, young people own little and hire even fewer, and vote even more infrequently, so why give a rats ass what they think? In the real world, we have to earn respect. It doesn't just show up because you think you deserve it.

Karkianman101

I too wouldn't trust a 17 year old over a seasoned veteran when we're talking about how the fight should be fought. But right now we're talking about whether or not it should have been fought to begin with.

I agree that younger people have a tendency to be stupid, and you shouldn't automatically take their word as gospel. But don't automatically ignore the opinions of every single one just because most aren't worth it. I've met adults who are less mature than me, and younger people who are more. So I take it more case by case (an advantage of youth is that I haven't yet been calloused by repetitive encounters).

I could also dismiss you on the basis that from WWII and on our country was filled to the brim with propaganda, that we as a nation were involved in numerous things with which we truly had no business. I could say you were a child of brainwashing and bad governmental influence.

But I won't dismiss you on that. I'll address what you say.

leejo

Right. And 17 year olds have even less of a leg to stand on in that regard. Hell the constitution specifically prohibits people under certain ages holding elected (federal) office.

Sure you could, but who cares? You're just a kid and don't know what you're talking about.

My kung fu is better than yours grasshopper.

Karkianman101

Oooh... that was cold
:-P

Delta_Swift

I was thinking about making another reply, but I think you just about covered it, Karkianman. I will save my virtual breath for later.

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Rincewind

lol

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Required Reading for all TG sandboxers

munchkin

I was gonna reply to this...but my brainwashing reined me in.

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Hero

I'll sum up a few of the next pages:

Old people: SILLY KIDS ARE BRAINWASHED!
Young People: SILLY OLD FARTS ARE BRAINWASHED!

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USN_Squid

ONE piece of the evidence pointing to Iraq's search for Uranium in Niger was faked. Others were not. I encourage you to read the Butler Commission's Report:

http://www.butlerreview.org.uk/

a. It is accepted by all parties that Iraqi officials visited Niger in 1999.

b. The British government had intelligence from several different sources indicating that this visit was for the purpose of acquiring uranium. Since uranium constitutes almost three-quarters of Niger’s exports, the intelligence was credible.

c. The evidence was not conclusive that Iraq actually purchased, as opposed to having sought, uranium, and the British government did not claim this.

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