Karkianman101

Don't even think of expecting me to read 264 pages to debate online. Do you have the original documents? I haven't 'researched' this in depth. And I've been hearing recently that the founding evidence is pretty shaky. Not just on the Daily Show ( ), but the rest of TV, online, in books, etc.. And when Congress ratified the decision for war, all they were told was "There are many valid sources giving evidence...". They didn't have the documents themselves.

Vinzalf

I'm really suprised with this thread.

John Glenn is one of my heroes, I have very great respect for him. I don't believe the discussions following the initial post do him justice.

While the mudslinging in this thread is ironically similar to the issue between Senator Glenn and Senator Metzenbaum, I have to say, it's brought a really uncomfortable side out of this community.

I really don't know what to say, because I really feel cast out by some of these posts.

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RAWGRLRLRLRRLGLRL!!!

Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows.

I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak

Trooper

this post isnt a bash against glenn...we did kind of get side tracked from the orginal idea of it....we ment no disrespect by anything we say to each other....just some good old fashion debateing

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

rs_al

Regarding the "doing John Glenn justice", that's just the thing the cowardly author of this chain letter was trying to do.

You see, the post has almost nothing to do with John Glenn. They sort of made a bull**** sandwich. John Glenn on the top and bottom, but a whole lot of bs in the middle. But because of John Glenn (and vetrans) on the sides, they hope that people will become confused and think that John Glenn somehow endorses the crap in the middle, and that you can't dispute the middle without somehow disputing vetrans or something.

If you like the story about John Glenn in congress (and I always have), by all means forward that story. If you want to start up a discussion about Iraq, by all means start a discussion (hopefully in your own words, but I shouldn't ask too much). But don't take some anonymous writer's shameless mud slinging and contribute to a not-very-sneaky attempt to falsely attribute it to John Glenn as celebrity endorsement.

For more info, there's always snopes: http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/glenn.asp

I'm almost tempted to make "WHAT ABRAHAM LINCOLN SAID" with "Pull out of Iraq! Also, don't buy iPods!" and start sending that round. I'll combine it with some numerology on the Gettysburg Address that reveals the secret message, "VOTE NADER" as further proof of the greater Illuminati/liberal media/google conspiracy behind the missing WMDs. Man, I could totally be a political blogger.

Trooper

lol.....nice of way of puttiing it

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

Vinzalf

I had a feeling anything I said here would be ignored. My point was, this is the first time since joining TG that I have felt singled out by some in this community.

My comment on Sen. Glenn not getting justice here was for this fact: His rebuttal of Sen. Metzenbaums claims were to prove he was worthy of saying what he wanted. Now, as I view it, members of this community are too trying to repress opinions.

Which part of the BS Sandwich in this this thread do you fit?

But, I'm only 20 and incapable of making informed decisions on my own, nor acting on them.

Now If you'll excuse me, with all this talk about sandwiches, I'm going to call my mom at work now because I'm hungry and want something to eat.

__________________
RAWGRLRLRLRRLGLRL!!!

Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows.

I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak

Trooper

you are takeing this thread way to seriously.....no one is doubting John Glenns past or present events that have taken place...he was stating that people use promonint names to make a thread look fact....the part bout john glenn is true and he is an icon....just read if for face value

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

Vinzalf

Actually, thats exactly what I avoid doing. I know everyone has the ability to be mroe than meets the eye. That is exactly what I don't do, and what I'm upset about others doing.

__________________
RAWGRLRLRLRRLGLRL!!!

Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows.

I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak

leejo

No-one's saying that. We're saying that you lack the experience to be relied upon to make GOOD decisions on important issues. There is a reason why people want experienced leadership and it's not because we all hate people in their 20s: far from it. Experienced people have simply seen the full set of possible problems, have witnessed how projects can fall apart at the finish, how internal politics can torpedo good intentions, and the good ones have developed techniques to overcome these obstacles. Until you have that experience, you simply don't have that experience. It's not a personal attack or a judgement of you as a person.

Getting all pouty when people hurt your feelings is not a characteristic of strong leadership or a way to bring people's opinions around to your own. Experience teaches you that.

Vinzalf

This is absolutely rediculous, you all are so set in your opinions theres no chance for the youth of America to prove you wrong. Even valid points are dismissed with 'theres no possible way you could have experienced anything that relates to this' without looking into the background even a bit.

Try it once, you may be suprised what you find. Then again, and I admit it, you may find exactly what you expect. Unfortunately for the rest of us theres quite a number of younger people who are exactly like you say. But I assure you, it's not everybody.

__________________
RAWGRLRLRLRRLGLRL!!!

Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows.

I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak

leejo

And you are so certain of yourself that you dismiss the opinions and wisdom of your elders, reacting instead with frustration and anger that we aren't paying enough attention to you.

Poor thing. Hang in there: we've all been in your shoes, and it gets better.

Steeler

Jeez, leejo, condescend much? I really can't believe that this thread has degenerated into a case of generational warfare.

Elder is a title that is earned through wise coucil and years of proven leadership. It is not a nametag you get just by logging a certain number of years on Earth. You can get a certificate of participation for that.

There are certain people on this forum, and others, whose opinions I value highly and react positively to, and there are those who strike me as being very foolish (no, I'm not going to name names). Those impressions are determined by the continuum of their posts and the quality of their arguments, not by the "born on" date in their bios.

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leejo

I'm really just kidding. But it's so easy, like playing basketball with your kid brother.

With regard to your opinions about who is wise and who is not, I refer to my earlier posts.

Look, the fact is that you just don't know how stupid you are until you outgrow your own stupidity. Do you consider yourself as informed and wise now as you were 8 years ago? I hope not!

And if not, why do you suppose that process stops when you turn 18, or 20, or 30? Why is it so hard to accept that you are still in the very early phases of aquiring the knowledge, skills, and wisdom it takes to survive and be successful, much less make important decisions that affect many lives?

If you are, for example, 20, then I have a 16 year head start on you in reading books, studying essays, listening to others' opinions, making mistakes, seeing what works, getting laid, having my heart broken, breaking hearts, making and losing friends. And on and on.

I'd have to be pretty freaking stupid to have nearly twice the experience that you have and NOT have found a way to put that experience to good use.

Elder is a tag that other elders give each other. It's not up to the young bucks to decide who gets the title or even who gives the orders. That's just how it is kemosabe.

Steeler

Well then, why don't we put all these years of collective experience and judgement to work on the topic at hand rather than simply claiming, "Well, I'm older than you so I'm right."

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leejo

What topic at hand? The one you want to discuss or the one everyone else is discussing?