What John Glenn said...

**Magnum50** · 12-10-2005, 10:49 AM

Thought this was an interesting read, at least for the supporters of our military and the war on terror, lol, of course the "other" side might not think it's interesting..."

WHAT SENATOR JOHN GLENN SAID

Things that make you think a little:

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January.
In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the
month of January.That's just one American city,
about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq.

When some claim that President Bush shouldn't
have started this war, state the following:

a. FDR led us into World War II.

b. Germany never attacked us; Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost ...
an average of 112,500 per year.

c. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea.
North Korea never attacked us.
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost ...
an average of 18,334 per year.

d. John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
Vietnam never attacked us.

e. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost ...
an average of 5,800 per year.

f. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent.
Bosnia n! ever att acked us.
He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three
times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on
multiple occasions.

g. In the years since terrorists attacked us , President! Bush
has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled
al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors inLibya, Iran, and North
Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who
slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining
about how long the war is taking.
But ..

It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno
to take the Branch Davidian compound.
That was a 51-day operation.
We've been looking for evidence for chemical weapons
in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find
the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the
Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard
than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his
Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick

It took less time to take Iraq than it took
to count the votes in Florida!!!!

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB!
The Military morale is high!

The biased media hopes we are too ignorant
to realize the facts

But Wait there's more!

JOHN GLENN (ON THE SENATE FLOOR)
Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13

Some people still don't understand why military personnel
do what they do for a living. This exchange between
Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum
is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive
impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one
man's explanation of why men and women in the armed
services do what they do for a living.

This IS a typical, though sad, example of what
some who have never served think of the military.

Senator Metzenbaum (speaking to Senator Glenn):
"How can you run for Senate
when you've never held a real job?"

Senator Glenn (D-Ohio):
"I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps.
I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions.
My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different
occasions. I was in the space program. It wasn't my
checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was
not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the
daily cash receipts to the bank."

"I ask you to go with me .. as I went the other day...
to a veteran's hospital and look those men
with their mangled bodies .. in the eye, and tell THEM
they didn't hold a job!

You go with me to the Space Program at NASA
and go, as I have gone, to the widows and Orphans
of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee...
and you look those kids in the eye and tell them
that their DADS didn't hold a job.

You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in
Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends
buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch
those waving flags

You stand there, and you think about this nation,
and you tell ME that those people didn't have a job?

What about you?"

For those who don't remember ..
During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney
representing the Communist Party in the USA.

Now he's a Senator!

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading it in English thank a Veteran.

Hero · 12-10-2005, 11:44 AM

I don't really know one way or the other on this whole war, but that was indeed worth a read.

**WhiskeySix** · 12-10-2005, 12:03 PM

big thanks to all here who serve or have served.

Delta_Swift · 12-10-2005, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum50

WHAT SENATOR JOHN GLENN SAID

Things that make you think a little:

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January.
In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the
month of January.That's just one American city,
about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq.

That's only one month out of ~33 months we've been there. In November 2005 88 US servicemen and women were killed. Do we really need to look up how many other coalition force members were killed? What about Civilians? Is it wrong for me to assume we all know it's probably much higher than 88 in total?

Quote:

When some claim that President Bush shouldn't
have started this war, state the following:

d. John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
Vietnam never attacked us.

e. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost ...
an average of 5,800 per year.

Just because we fought in Vietnam doesn't mean we should have. I, for one, feel that it was a mistake. And JFK had plans to remove our advisors and forces from Vietnam. Unfortunately he was assassinated before it could happen.

Quote:

He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three
times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on
multiple occasions.

I agree that this was a mistake. However, there is more to it than meets the eye. Read Holy War Inc. by Peter L. Bergen. Great book about Osama Bin Laden's rise to power & Al-Qaeda.

Quote:

g. In the years since terrorists attacked us , President! Bush
has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled
al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors inLibya, Iran, and North
Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who
slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

Define liberated. If by liberated you mean remove previous regimes through military force, but not properly plan and prepare to restore structure and security, then yes I agree.

Quote:

The Democrats are complaining
about how long the war is taking.

I think we should finish what we started, but I don't think we should have gone in the first place.

Quote:

Senator Metzenbaum (speaking to Senator Glenn):
"How can you run for Senate
when you've never held a real job?"

That was an extremely stupid and ignorant question. I'm with you on this.

munchkin · 12-10-2005, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum50

He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three
times by Sudan and did nothing.

Interesting tit-bit from the 9/11 Commission Report:
"[F]ormer Sudanese officials claim that Sudan offered to expel Bin Ladin to the United States." But the report immediately continued: "Clinton administration officials deny ever receiving such an offer. We have not found any reliable evidence to support the Sudanese claim."

You should also check out the October 3rd, 2001 Washington Post article entitled, U.S. Was Foiled Multiple Times in Efforts to Capture Bin Laden or Have Him Killed, and Sandy Berger's (former National Security Advisor) Op-Ed piece published July 13th, 2002, entitled, Skeptical About Sudan.

Delta_Swift · 12-10-2005, 08:04 PM

I should have clarified my post better. You're right on the money Munchkin. One such attempt to take out Bin Laden was foiled due to certain "supposed Saudi friends" visiting him at the time. The strike had to be called off. Ain't that some shtuff?

Arf · 12-10-2005, 08:18 PM

It's a little slanted and somewhat inaccurate.

During WWII Germany declared war on the US. You can pretend they didn't physically attack first but that's not so relevant when you remember they declared war first and their ally was invading US territory. If you want to talk about technicalities like that it should also be mentioned the Korean War was a UN policing action and the US never declared war but North Korea did invade start the conflict by invading a US ally.

It's also very slanted in that it mentions the actions of Kennedy and Johnson who were 2 Democrat presidents during Vietnam without ever talking about Richard Nixon. Then Clinton is attacked for bombing Bosnia and while his actions led to the overthrow of Slobodan Milosevic that repressive regime isn't mentioned. Even though the article was quick to mention the other countries that never attacked us it forgets to mention Iraq. If we want to be as technical as the article Afghanistan would fall under that category too as they were harboring terrorists but they themselves never attacked the US.

The conversation with John Glenn though, did actually happen.

**Magnum50** · 12-10-2005, 08:34 PM

Delta Swift... I fully support your right to disagree, (aren't you glad your an American, lol)...

but the first thing I do, when someone disagrees with me, or post the way you did, (which by the way was a very civil and professional post), I like to read the bios, (and thanks again for filling that out, most don't)...

and I knew it was one of two things... 1) not an American, or 2) a young collage student... lol....

As much as you have a right to disagree, I also believe your age group and status group are brained washed by a bunch of Democratic Professors, and don't think 19 years of a "good" American life warrant you with a valid opinion on the matter...

Now I know this sounds like I'm putting you down, I'm not, thats not the purpose... but it is my honest opinion, and since you choose to respond to my post (and another thank you for that, at least were using the "sandbox" forum for the purpose)... I also expect you'll do one of two things 1) Ignore this reply, or 2) Tell me I'm old and brain washed by the man or something similar. lol

either way... your post is appreciated, because it's the purpose of the Sandbox forum, but disagree...think you should get some opinions of your own. Get some real life experience. (not everyone wants to hug).

Oh, BTW... don't forget John Glenn is a Democrat.

**Magnum50** · 12-10-2005, 08:38 PM

and Arf, thanks for your reply, wish you would of shared your bio info with us... would be interesting to know... lol

but yes I agree, it is slanted to one side... ain't that the way it always is in politic talk/post? lol

but theres also ALOT of truth in that statement...

Hero · 12-10-2005, 09:08 PM

Yes indeed, it was a good read however Arf made some exellent points. I didn't really read into it to much but Arf's arguement contains exellent counterpoints.

My bio is filled Magnum, let's speculate on my brainwashing shall we

.

Steeler · 12-10-2005, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum50

As much as you have a right to disagree, I also believe your age group and status group are brained washed by a bunch of Democratic Professors, and don't think 19 years of a "good" American life warrant you with a valid opinion on the matter...

Delta can have my 27 years tacked on to his then, because I happen to agree. Is 46 old enough to start having opinions?

Quote:

Now I know this sounds like I'm putting you down, I'm not, thats not the purpose...

Quote:

...think you should get some opinions of your own. Get some real life experience. (not everyone wants to hug).

Regardless of your purpose, you ARE putting him down. You assume that, by dint of his being 19 and a student, that he categorically must be a) too deficient in life experience (whatever that is) to express an opinion, and b) brainwashed by some theoretical political force opposed to your own.

That was the most condescending and insulting post I have seen in my short time in the sandbox so far. Don't resort to dismissing him out of hand just because you have no adequate response to his comments.

**TG_Bubba** · 12-10-2005, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum50

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading it in English thank a Veteran.

Say's it all.

**CingularDuality** · 12-10-2005, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeler

Regardless of your purpose, you ARE putting him down. You assume that, by dint of his being 19 and a student, that he categorically must be a) too deficient in life experience (whatever that is) to express an opinion, and b) brainwashed by some theoretical political force opposed to your own.

That was the most condescending and insulting post I have seen in my short time in the sandbox so far. Don't resort to dismissing him out of hand just because you have no adequate response to his comments.

Hmmm... <puts moderator hat on>

I can see how you might interpret Magnum's comments to be condescending and insulting, but I think that you have to go out of your way to try to interpret it that way. Let's try to consider the author's perspective and intention before slinging accusations of "condescending and insulting", OK? Let's also consider how people might interpret things when we write them, Magnum. Perhaps a different choice of words would have imparted the same opinion without sounding "insulting"?</hat>

Personally, I think that Magnum is right. Throughout one's life, there will be subjects on which you're not (yet?) qualified to opine. Not that you can't open your mouth and spew an opinion, but just that people won't, and shouldn't, take you seriously. I don't necessarily think this is one of those situations, though...

Arf · 12-11-2005, 12:01 AM

Mostly I just watch a lot of educational television.

I tend to check my facts on Historychannel.com and Wikipedia if I don't have a book nearby.

**Trooper** · 12-11-2005, 12:07 AM

right and we are all given the rights we have today becuase of our vets......i give to them when i can and when i see a vet i thank him....you may not agree with whats going on right now....but you have a duty to support them...they signed up to secure our countries future....and i agree with cing and magnum....+rep

12-10-2005, 10:49 AM	#1 (permalink)
Magnum50 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Naples, Florida USA Age: 42 Posts: 3,730	What John Glenn said... Thought this was an interesting read, at least for the supporters of our military and the war on terror, lol, of course the "other" side might not think it's interesting..." WHAT SENATOR JOHN GLENN SAID Things that make you think a little: There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January. In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January.That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq. When some claim that President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following: a. FDR led us into World War II. b. Germany never attacked us; Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost ... an average of 112,500 per year. c. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea. North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost ... an average of 18,334 per year. d. John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. e. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost ... an average of 5,800 per year. f. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent. Bosnia n! ever att acked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions. g. In the years since terrorists attacked us , President! Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors inLibya, Iran, and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking. But .. It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation. We've been looking for evidence for chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records. It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!! Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military morale is high! The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts But Wait there's more! JOHN GLENN (ON THE SENATE FLOOR) Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13 Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living. This IS a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never served think of the military. Senator Metzenbaum (speaking to Senator Glenn): "How can you run for Senate when you've never held a real job?" Senator Glenn (D-Ohio): "I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps. I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program. It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to the bank." "I ask you to go with me .. as I went the other day... to a veteran's hospital and look those men with their mangled bodies .. in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job! You go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the widows and Orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their DADS didn't hold a job. You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch those waving flags You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME that those people didn't have a job? What about you?" For those who don't remember .. During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA. Now he's a Senator! If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English thank a Veteran. __________________ Magnum www.gettacticaldammit.com

12-10-2005, 11:44 AM	#2 (permalink)
Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New Jersey Age: 18 Posts: 427	Re: What John Glenn said... I don't really know one way or the other on this whole war, but that was indeed worth a read. __________________ --

12-10-2005, 12:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
WhiskeySix Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gillette Stadium, Section 309, Row 12, Seat 24 Age: 33 Posts: 8,008	Re: What John Glenn said... big thanks to all here who serve or have served. __________________

12-10-2005, 08:04 PM	#6 (permalink)
Delta_Swift Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North Carolina Age: 22 Posts: 455	Re: What John Glenn said... I should have clarified my post better. You're right on the money Munchkin. One such attempt to take out Bin Laden was foiled due to certain "supposed Saudi friends" visiting him at the time. The strike had to be called off. Ain't that some shtuff? __________________ \|TG\|Delta_Swift

12-10-2005, 08:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
Arf Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 972	Re: What John Glenn said... It's a little slanted and somewhat inaccurate. During WWII Germany declared war on the US. You can pretend they didn't physically attack first but that's not so relevant when you remember they declared war first and their ally was invading US territory. If you want to talk about technicalities like that it should also be mentioned the Korean War was a UN policing action and the US never declared war but North Korea did invade start the conflict by invading a US ally. It's also very slanted in that it mentions the actions of Kennedy and Johnson who were 2 Democrat presidents during Vietnam without ever talking about Richard Nixon. Then Clinton is attacked for bombing Bosnia and while his actions led to the overthrow of Slobodan Milosevic that repressive regime isn't mentioned. Even though the article was quick to mention the other countries that never attacked us it forgets to mention Iraq. If we want to be as technical as the article Afghanistan would fall under that category too as they were harboring terrorists but they themselves never attacked the US. The conversation with John Glenn though, did actually happen. __________________

12-10-2005, 08:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
Magnum50 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Naples, Florida USA Age: 42 Posts: 3,730	Re: What John Glenn said... Delta Swift... I fully support your right to disagree, (aren't you glad your an American, lol)... but the first thing I do, when someone disagrees with me, or post the way you did, (which by the way was a very civil and professional post), I like to read the bios, (and thanks again for filling that out, most don't)... and I knew it was one of two things... 1) not an American, or 2) a young collage student... lol.... As much as you have a right to disagree, I also believe your age group and status group are brained washed by a bunch of Democratic Professors, and don't think 19 years of a "good" American life warrant you with a valid opinion on the matter... Now I know this sounds like I'm putting you down, I'm not, thats not the purpose... but it is my honest opinion, and since you choose to respond to my post (and another thank you for that, at least were using the "sandbox" forum for the purpose)... I also expect you'll do one of two things 1) Ignore this reply, or 2) Tell me I'm old and brain washed by the man or something similar. lol either way... your post is appreciated, because it's the purpose of the Sandbox forum, but disagree...think you should get some opinions of your own. Get some real life experience. (not everyone wants to hug). Oh, BTW... don't forget John Glenn is a Democrat. __________________ Magnum www.gettacticaldammit.com

12-10-2005, 08:38 PM	#9 (permalink)
Magnum50 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Naples, Florida USA Age: 42 Posts: 3,730	Re: What John Glenn said... and Arf, thanks for your reply, wish you would of shared your bio info with us... would be interesting to know... lol but yes I agree, it is slanted to one side... ain't that the way it always is in politic talk/post? lol but theres also ALOT of truth in that statement... __________________ Magnum www.gettacticaldammit.com

12-10-2005, 09:08 PM	#10 (permalink)
Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New Jersey Age: 18 Posts: 427	Re: What John Glenn said... Yes indeed, it was a good read however Arf made some exellent points. I didn't really read into it to much but Arf's arguement contains exellent counterpoints. My bio is filled Magnum, let's speculate on my brainwashing shall we . __________________ --

12-11-2005, 12:01 AM	#14 (permalink)
Arf Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 972	Re: What John Glenn said... Mostly I just watch a lot of educational television. I tend to check my facts on Historychannel.com and Wikipedia if I don't have a book nearby. __________________

12-11-2005, 12:07 AM	#15 (permalink)
Trooper Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my wifes house......if she says i can Age: 25 Posts: 8,559	Re: What John Glenn said... right and we are all given the rights we have today becuase of our vets......i give to them when i can and when i see a vet i thank him....you may not agree with whats going on right now....but you have a duty to support them...they signed up to secure our countries future....and i agree with cing and magnum....+rep __________________ that sounds like a good idea trooper. -Vulcan

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