Trooper

im still all for the fireing squad.....and makeing it quick....given the death penalty...taken out back with your 44mag..50 cents per shell and BOOM....much cheaper

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

Diceman

Not to be flippant, but where does due process fit into that?

The sources seem to indicate that the cost is dominantly an upfront cost, not due to the lengthy appeals process.

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Pickle

I know you well enough Dice to know you are not being flippant.

This is my way of saying that due process has gotten out of hand. 25 years to carry out a sentence is way too long. I'd be happy with 10.

I have not looked into costs as you have and this is just my opinion. But I do doubt those estimates. If the cost is the initial trials, whose process is the same why would it cost so much more?

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Diceman

I believe the costs are different because of the heightened criteria of due process. There are also two seperate trials; one for guilt determination and one for sentencing. I would imagine a lot of the same evidence is reviewed in both trials, and a lot of experts flown in from a lot of places; lots of media to control, lots of security to implement, etc.

The peripheral costs are just guesses, but I believe the double-trial to be fact.

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Wyzcrak

It's very interesting to watch how different people handle this differently.

Kudos to those working to gather information and educate themselves.

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leejo

And with the enlongated appeals process, guess who wins with the tens of thousands of billable hours thrown into the task?

Pickle

Here in CA the process is the same.


Trial to determine guilt or innocence
Trial to determine sentence by jury

If the death sentence is not saught I might be swayed to see where the cost differences come into play because the strategies are different.

However, I also have to go back to my original comment that to me money is not an issue here. The willingness to stand up for victim's rights and what the CA people have asked for is the issue. But the money argument is interesting.

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Diceman

We all do, when the rule of law is held paramount over notions of frontier justice?

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leejo

That would be my story if I were a lawyer who specialized in such a noble cause for 7 figures a year.

Karkianman101

I'm for the death penalty and abortion. One is about the definition of when something begins to "live" and the mother-to-be's choice in the matter, and the other is about things which have lowered themselves from humans in all ways but genetics, things which are undeserving of life. If they reform, great. But if they merrily reminesce about horrific rapings, molesting children, and killing for pleasure, then they have lost the right to live.

Vinzalf

@leejo- Yea, that'd definately be a reason to think otherwise.

It costs so much because its so rare. Rare things cost more. As vulgar as it may sound, I think the "Minimum Requirements" should be bumped a bit higher (or lower, may be a more appropriate term)

But then we get more of the insanity plea. And that's a whole other debate...

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Dirt013

Well Put!

Dirt013

Root

Is because we live in an increasingly criminal society. Morals aren't slipping, they're free-falling. You're not going to get tougher laws when more and more people are committing crime. Drugs are getting legalised (cannibis is practically legal in the UK now), who DOESN'T have at least 1 pirated mp3 file on their hard drive? Count how many people you see riding their bicycles on the pavement in the UK, or driving their car in excess of the speed limit (whilst complaining about speed cameras).

I nearly got run over by a police car recently (it wasn't responding to an emergency) because the officer driving it committed the offence of failing to indicate. Theives don't do jaill time as a rule, any hint of drugs related to crime, and the victim (the one that a normal person would call a criminal) gets time in a cosy rehab center, and then released to re-offend.

In the EU, speed cameras MUST be made obvious (by painting them bright colors) because it's a breach of a speeding drivers (a criminals) human rights if they aren't warned that the camera is there. Execution is illegal in the EU (probably because politicians are worried about ending up with a short drop and a sudden stop).

Vigilanties scare the crap out of me, but I can see groups of them cropping up all over the place if someone doesn't sort things out. The politicians are all concerned with keeping their power, not with the proles that vote for them.

2 key conditions are not being met :

1) Criminals are not afraid of getting caught (lack of police, legal process weighted in favour of the criminal as opposed to the suspect)

AND

2) Criminals are not afraid of the consequences of being caugh (even if they do jail time, they automatically knock a third off at sentencing, and then theres all sorts of early release rubbish. Plus jails are pretty much hotels these days).

Both these conditions are critical to any justice system working.

On a day to day basis I agree with you about the death penalty, but my reasoning is entirely based on the fact that mistakes cannot be rectified. If there was a foolproof way of determining guilt, then I'd be totally in favour. The guildford 4 and the birmingham 7 would all have got the death penalty had it been available, yet it turned out that all 11 people were beaten into signing false confessions by police officers. Taking the lives of each officer involved wouldn't have been sufficient justice if they'd been executed.

How much are you planning on paying for a bit of rope?

Crime > evidence > arrest > charge > court > sentence > public hanging.

If you're gonna do it, stop sitting around playing with yourself and get the job done.

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munchkin

Great comedy - I still prefer The Daily Show though.

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BaneII

Christians are only Christians when it is convenient, like when running for public office. It's just amazing how easy they overlook that "Thou shall not murder."

Killing innocent people, to me, is even more barbaric. The justice system isnt infallible. Many people on death row have been proven innocent before being executed. Just because twelve people picked from the general populance get together and make a decision, doesnt mean its a wise or correct one.

The plaintiff for criminal cases is the government. In which case the lawyers are salaried employees, there is no billable hours. The defendant is assigned a public defender who is a non-government lawyer. The public defender usually works for a private firm and is normally a junior or less experienced lawyer. The rate in which the public defender gets paid is set by state law and it is nowhere near what private practice lawyers normally charge. However, the defendant is free to hire their own lawyer and must pay for it. So unless the defendant has deep pockets, like celebrities and CEOs, or the lawyer works for free, no one on the defendant's side is making big bucks. So I am not sure who you are insinuating is winning the tens of thousands of billable hours.