Terrorism for tots - Page 2

**CingularDuality** · 01-24-2006, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFeniX

I don't really understand what you are trying to say here. How exactly has society become so dependant on the government? A liberal policy believes that a sufficiently sized nation (the US) should help out the lower rung of society. Is this a bad thing? No.

It may be cliche, but welfare was intended to be a hand up, not a handout. Now we have families that have been on welfare for three or four generations. Our helping hand has gone bad and we've now got large populations that are no longer willing to work for themselves. They expect things to be given to them and for other people to take care of them.

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I fail to see how a class that's going to scare kids into thinking they could die at any moment (anyone got the Cold War feeling yet) is any solution to your perceived problem.

I think the issue here is that you don't understand what I'm trying to say. I really don't have an issue with schools trying to teach kids what to do in the event of Katrina or some other natural disaster. My problem is the government using schools for fear-mongering.

What are you talking about? How is a website with some tips on emergency preperation going to take over your local schools and start "fear-mongering"?

Quote:

I would think my case of shotgun ammo and 500 rounds of 9mm would at least allow me to fight my way towards more ammunition.

More ammo? From where? From the gunshop that was completely looted three hours ago, or from the WalMart that is still swarming with people impressed by the going out of business sale?

munchkin · 01-24-2006, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

It may be cliche, but welfare was intended to be a hand up, not a handout. Now we have families that have been on welfare for three or four generations. Our helping hand has gone bad and we've now got large populations that are no longer willing to work for themselves. They expect things to be given to them and for other people to take care of them.

I have a feeling that we're gonna hear some calls for evidence soon.

**CingularDuality** · 01-24-2006, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rincewind

Any forum suggestions?

Yes: AR15.com Survival Forums

I started browsing AR15.com when looking for more information on competitive shooting and didn't look at the survival forum until Katrina hit. I had decided that I knew that I wasn't prepared for something like that and went there to learn from some of the freaks that are really into it.

Keep in mind that a lot of these guys entertain (and educate) themselves by describing SHTF (stuff hits the fan) and TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it) scenarios. They talk about how to survive in Mad Max's world and what they would've done better than Tom Cruise in War of the Worlds. At first, I thought they really were all a bunch of nutcases. Then I realize what they were really doing.

They talk a lot about gear. What equipment is the best/cheapest/lasts the longest/stays the freshest. Is canned ham good to keep in your garage for a year? What about SPAM? Are MREs better than the commercial camping foods? Which website has the cheapest mil-surp Swedish rucksacks? Plastic water cans vs. galvanized steel. And so on...

Also keep in mind that it's a gun site. Most of their plans are going to include a gun. If that's not something you're interested in, plan accordingly.

It took only a matter of minutes for me to glean some good, useful information from these forums. I'd be willing to bet money that anyone else from here would have the same experience...

Ooh, and right now there's a thread on how to skin/gut a squirrel! With pics!!!

Seriously, browse the thread titles and read the ones that sound interesting. Skip the ones that sound silly or uninteresting. Eventually, I started reading some of the threads that I had previously found silly or uninteresting...

**CingularDuality** · 01-24-2006, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchkin

I have a feeling that we're gonna hear some calls for evidence soon.

Evidence of what? Generations on welfare? Large populations on welfare? Nope, any American can see it for themselves in any city...

munchkin · 01-24-2006, 06:27 AM

Fair enough. I was a bit taken aback by that statement, but then again I feel that I'm not qualified to comment on it. Thanks for the survival forum links - interesting stuff. Some of it could be useful, some of it makes me think "what the hell".

**CingularDuality** · 01-24-2006, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchkin

Some of it could be useful, some of it makes me think "what the hell".

Yeah, me too. But now I figure that as long as it makes me think, it can't be that bad.

**TheFeniX** · 01-24-2006, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

It may be cliche, but welfare was intended to be a hand up, not a handout. Now we have families that have been on welfare for three or four generations. Our helping hand has gone bad and we've now got large populations that are no longer willing to work for themselves. They expect things to be given to them and for other people to take care of them.

Then that's a red herring to the arguement. This isn't about welfare or how poorly it's run. And if welfare is the issue (which I agree, it's in shambles), then we need to correct REAL problems like it, Social Security, Medicare, illegal immigrants getting schooling and medical treatment: Not spend money on worthless terrorism training.

Quote:

What are you talking about? How is a website with some tips on emergency preperation going to take over your local schools and start "fear-mongering"?

Red Herring: we aren't talking about a website. We're talking about survival classes in grade school including "Terrorism Survival 101." That's where my arguement lies because in those situations, no one is truely prepared because there's too many situations to train for, and it's such a low statistical occurance: we'd be better off teaching kids good driving habits at an early age.

Quote:

More ammo? From where? From the gunshop that was completely looted three hours ago, or from the WalMart that is still swarming with people impressed by the going out of business sale?

Now we've gone from a humorous tangent, to a worst case scenario siutation. In that event: I know of very few people who have the means or the reason to keep stockpiles of ammunition on hand. In fact, the only reason I keep 500 rounds of 9mm ammo on hand is because it's so rediculously cheap at Academy.

**CingularDuality** · 01-24-2006, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFeniX

Then that's a red herring to the arguement. This isn't about welfare or how poorly it's run. And if welfare is the issue (which I agree, it's in shambles), then we need to correct REAL problems like it, Social Security, Medicare, illegal immigrants getting schooling and medical treatment: Not spend money on worthless terrorism training.

Agreed.

Quote:

Red Herring: we aren't talking about a website. We're talking about survival classes in grade school including "Terrorism Survival 101." That's where my arguement lies because in those situations, no one is truely prepared because there's too many situations to train for, and it's such a low statistical occurance: we'd be better off teaching kids good driving habits at an early age.

???
What is this thread about? You're the one that jumped on some schoolteacher tangent, the discussion is about readykids.gov or whatever website the government is going to put up.

Quote:

Now we've gone from a humorous tangent, to a worst case scenario siutation. In that event: I know of very few people who have the means or the reason to keep stockpiles of ammunition on hand. In fact, the only reason I keep 500 rounds of 9mm ammo on hand is because it's so rediculously cheap at Academy.

You don't think Katrina could've been worse? No, I don't think I'm talking about a worst case scenario, I'm talking about disaster hitting any of America's 30 largest cities to the point where the city is evacuated.

**TheFeniX** · 01-24-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

???
What is this thread about? You're the one that jumped on some schoolteacher tangent, the discussion is about readykids.gov or whatever website the government is going to put up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Article

The program, called Ready Kids, is scheduled to roll out with TV ads, school programs and other events

Quote:

"Ready Kids is a tool for parents and teachers to use to be able to speak to their students and children about how to be prepared for any type of disaster," said DHS spokeswoman Joanna Gonzalez

Come on, Cing. We've gone opposite ends and same-side numerous times in this forum: You know I do not just make up stuff in order to argue. On the surface, it may seem like just a webpage. But it's designed to be much more than that.

Informing about natural disasters which can and do happen regularly - Good
Informing about terror attacks which are a statistical anomaly - waste of time and resources

They aren't just putting up a webpage. They are putting up a webpage so they can then teach this stuff directly to kids. I find it at best a waste of time and at worst passing fear onto a new generation.

Quote:

You don't think Katrina could've been worse? No, I don't think I'm talking about a worst case scenario, I'm talking about disaster hitting any of America's 30 largest cities to the point where the city is evacuated.

I fail to see what you're getting at. Do I need to stockpile huge jugs of water, canned food, and ammunition at all times? I'm paranoind Cing, but ever MY paranoia has it's limits.

**CingularDuality** · 01-24-2006, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFeniX

They aren't just putting up a webpage. They are putting up a webpage so they can then teach this stuff directly to kids. I find it at best a waste of time and at worst passing fear onto a new generation.

Well, then you and simply disagree. I think that educating about preparedness is completely different from "passing fear".

Quote:

I fail to see what you're getting at. Do I need to stockpile huge jugs of water, canned food, and ammunition at all times?

That's up to you. A few gallons of bottled water, and a weeks worth of food don't take up much room in the garage... Ammo? Well, that's up to you, too. I don't think anybody is going to need a stockpile of ammo in any but the most extreme situations. I would hope that a few filled magazines would be all that you'd need to defend yourself. But how much room does a few boxes of ammo take up?

theoriginalblankman · 01-24-2006, 08:13 PM

Fenix has my point, it is fear mongering. Especially to kids, who are so impressionable. This is ridiculous but it has a point: imagine if every couple of months or so kids were given a drill for rabie infested dog attacks. What do you think little 8 year timmy is going to think the next time he see's a dog across the street. I can guarantee you he probably won't want to pet it.

But its like, you have as much chance as being a victim of a terrorist attack as being a victim of a dog attack.

Terrorism is also kind of turning into a vice for a political movement. It allows people to take there minds of the real issues and focus on something that they're being forced to focus on. 50,000 people in the u.s. died last year from pharmacies due to wrongly prescribed pills and overdoses. Even more died in car crashes.

But nobody really focuses on those things because they happen over a long period of time. 9-11 was so effective and caught peoples attention because it happened in one day.

If you were trained to get prepared for a terroristic attack would you think you'd eventually be a victim of one?

**leejo** · 01-24-2006, 08:19 PM

Many people focus on those things. Are you kidding? Can you imagine how expensive a single pharmaceutical mistake is?

But these things are *mistakes* whereas 9/11 was a successful *attack* that murdered 3000 people. They are fundamentally different sorts of issues.

theoriginalblankman · 01-24-2006, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

Many people focus on those things. Are you kidding? Can you imagine how expensive a single pharmaceutical mistake is?

But these things are *mistakes* whereas 9/11 was a successful *attack* that murdered 3000 people. They are fundamentally different sorts of issues.

So there's a difference between a mistake that kills 100,000 people and an attack that kills 3,000. The mistake isn't the issue while the attack is. I got it now.

And you really have to be blind if you think people are focusing on the *mistakes* as much as they're focusing on terrorism.

**TheFeniX** · 01-25-2006, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Well, then you and simply disagree. I think that educating about preparedness is completely different from "passing fear".

And we bring this discussion to a close.

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But how much room does a few boxes of ammo take up?

Probably less than the 10 boxes I keep on hand.

aeroripper · 01-25-2006, 03:37 AM

Quote:

So there's a difference between a mistake that kills 100,000 people and an attack that kills 3,000. The mistake isn't the issue while the attack is. I got it now.

And you really have to be blind if you think people are focusing on the *mistakes* as much as they're focusing on terrorism.

No, in my mind there really isn't, and its a shame these "mistakes" are so widespread.

9\11 was a big patriotic ordeal, and very extraordinary. Death by accidental medicine dosage is less sensational sounding and is something more ordinary. It seems like another number in an endless series of statistics you constantly hear about with no real, human meaning attached to them.

Even if it did make major headline news for weeks, it would give pharmaceutical companies a bad rep and lose profits, I doubt they would let that happen for long. Just look at all these recent deaths from medicines (vioxx, quite a few others, seems to be a new one everyday) approved by the FDA. Where is the widespread outrage and time that people graciously give to terrorism but not to negligent doctors or pharm. companies?

01-24-2006, 06:27 AM	#20 (permalink)
munchkin Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Age: 17 Posts: 2,271	Re: Terrorism for tots Fair enough. I was a bit taken aback by that statement, but then again I feel that I'm not qualified to comment on it. Thanks for the survival forum links - interesting stuff. Some of it could be useful, some of it makes me think "what the hell". __________________ [conduct][volun][drill][sg-c1][tpf-c1] \|TG-2nd\|munchkin Nec aspera terrent.

01-24-2006, 08:13 PM	#26 (permalink)
theoriginalblankman Join Date: Aug 2005 Age: 20 Posts: 181	Re: Terrorism for tots Fenix has my point, it is fear mongering. Especially to kids, who are so impressionable. This is ridiculous but it has a point: imagine if every couple of months or so kids were given a drill for rabie infested dog attacks. What do you think little 8 year timmy is going to think the next time he see's a dog across the street. I can guarantee you he probably won't want to pet it. But its like, you have as much chance as being a victim of a terrorist attack as being a victim of a dog attack. Terrorism is also kind of turning into a vice for a political movement. It allows people to take there minds of the real issues and focus on something that they're being forced to focus on. 50,000 people in the u.s. died last year from pharmacies due to wrongly prescribed pills and overdoses. Even more died in car crashes. But nobody really focuses on those things because they happen over a long period of time. 9-11 was so effective and caught peoples attention because it happened in one day. If you were trained to get prepared for a terroristic attack would you think you'd eventually be a victim of one?

01-24-2006, 08:19 PM	#27 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,676	Re: Terrorism for tots Many people focus on those things. Are you kidding? Can you imagine how expensive a single pharmaceutical mistake is? But these things are mistakes whereas 9/11 was a successful attack that murdered 3000 people. They are fundamentally different sorts of issues.

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