GhostintheShell

It would still be global warming IF it was heating up but unfortunately they don't know if it is or isn't warming up, and if it is or isn't warming or cooling as a part of a natural cycle.

In my line of work I'm required not only to use extremely high accuracy thermometers for measurement purposes, but I also design them as well, usually driving the systems with micro-processors. (Actually it has been a new design that has taken a lot of my time away from TG this last few weeks.)

Only in the past 30-40 years have we been able to make accurate temperature measurements. (Before that we were using very primitive inaccurate methods of temperature measurment.)

As far as "reading up", I think I have that covered...
I have 120mb of worldwide historical temperature data from ~19000 stations making temperature measurements right here on my pc in excel format if anyone is interested. The data shows from 1951-1971 a slight upward trend approaching 0.5 deg C above the average, then a significant decline until -0.1 deg C at present day.

I'd love to upload the two spreadsheets if you 'd like so you can see the "flatline" that the alarmists are crying about global warming.

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Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
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leejo

Are you being sarcastic and making up things I did not write because you think it's cute?

I did read that silly article you posted. I encourage everyone to read it and make up their own minds about who is censoring what to score political points. The man presented his findings to Cheney and cabinet members twice. He then strolled out on the campaign trail, was critical of the administration, and announced that he was a Kerry man. And Bush must be a bastard for wondering if keeping this snake on staff is a good thing? I have to pay this guy's salary because....?

Let's have it your way. Everyone in every office of the federal government can attend conferences and issue statements about departmental policy all the time, with no controls or political censorship. Whee!

Lucky Shot

Doesn't matter what his position is, his employer has the right to decide what message is released, public or private organization. There are plenty of organizations that serve public functions that do not allow their employees to shoot off at the hip. NASA does not have a 100% transparent organization. Deep Impact struck comet Tempel 1 on June 28th, and they released a few photos, but then held back the majority of data behind it. They controlled the message and haven't released the data. Maybe they are being censored too? NASA is not 100% public and should reserve the right to be able to control the message they want to give off.

That was me who said it. The reason why is that it's way too easy to blame Humans for destroying the earth. There isn't a reason for me to add onto human's impact on global warmin as it's the presumed reason why Earth is warming up. My goal was to say that's WAY too simplistic.

I agree with you here. Funding many times determines what is being studied toward supporting pet projects. Right or wrong, Breast Cancer research outweighs that of Prostate Cancer Research due to the way that Breast Cancer Research proponents have been able to market the importance of their research. There are great amounts of corporate and economic interests that are impacted by Global Warming research.

Lucky Shot

IceCold

But does the evidence show that our species has had a significant NEGATIVE impact on the Earth?

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Diceman

Agreed, but it is an error to presume too much in the other direction either; that is, we can't say that we aren't the ones who are impacting the climate.

The fact is that no one knows. Anyone who says differently is selling you something - probably an ideology.

Ghost, I don't think that the question of climate change is so much of concern in a 50-60 year reference period, but over tens of thousands of years.

My step-dad is a geologist, and is very well versed in stuff like this. He maintains that earth's climate, from the origins of earth to about 10,000 years ago varied wildly. It's only been in the last 10,000 years that the climate has been stable - abnormally so. According to him, reasons as to why the climate stabilized are not generally well-accepted, and as a consequnce it could become unstable again (with catastrophic effects) for reasons that may only be clear in hindsight.

All that said, I am definately not a geologist, nor any other kind of earth scientist, and thus am not well-versed in the springboard topic du jour. I can't defend any of this stuff with anything other than "it's just what I heard." I suspect we're all mostly in the same boat.

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Steeler

REPENT!

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poe

Global warming? Pah... all I want now is for the rain to stop. We've hit over 40 days of straight rain I think. It's getting a BIT obnoxious and tiresome.

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Apophis

I would love to get a copy of that data.. Are their latitude/longitude references in the Excel file? I'd be curious to see if certain portions of the US are warming/cooling faster than others. Mostly areas in the Pacific rim and northern Atlantic.

If you can upload it somewhere or snail-mail me a CD, that would be great. I love having data as it allows me to open my mouth without feeling quite as stupid or uninformed.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

ScratchMonkey

I'd love to see the spreadsheets as well. What's the size and layout? Can they they be put somewhere public?

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GhostintheShell

http://www.dsllc.com/download/NewGlobalTemps.zip

http://www.dsllc.com/download/OldGlobalTemps.zip

Here are two links to the same spreadsheets I have on my pc. One is for historical data the other is more recent.

Check them out, don't forget the tabs at the bottom. Also, every weather station has long and lat so you can compare areas of interest as well as a global plot of coverage and triangulation.

Oh and here is a cool spreadsheet showing various extreme temperatures as recorded in the 48 states.

http://www.dsllc.com/download/Extremes.xls

__________________
Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
Ernest Hemingway, "On the Blue Water," Esquire, April 1936

Rincewind

I'd like to point out that historical data for global temperature is compiled from multiple sources. New methods for quantifing historic mean global temperatures are always being developed and current methods improved. No current research that I know of includes mean global temperature data from the early 1700's to the early 1900's that relies solely on human measurement that hasn't been checked against other indicators.

Neat spreadsheets though, where did you come across them?

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No matter how far a wizard goes, he will always come back for his hat. --T. Pratchett

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Required Reading for all TG sandboxers

AMosely

Are you talking to me? I assume you are because I am the one who posted the article. What did I make up that you didn't write? Once again I find myself unappreciative of your tone. Please don't mock me or my opinions - that's obnoxious and is poor etiquitte.

If you were the Hansen in this case, and believed that your findings were being ignored, covered up, and policy was being pushed in exactly the opposite direction of your suggestions, would you speak up? If you did speak up, how would you react when the President assigned new staff to intercept and redirect your communications, as in the radio interview request? Would you appreciate someone else speaking on your behalf?

Just so I understand where you are coming from, you believe that everyone on a government paycheck works for the President and is not allowed to speak out against him? Sorry, but that's dead wrong. Shame on you. The President has this type of control over his staff - as in cabinet apointees, advisors, and general White House staff. He is permitted to appoint directors of federal agencies, such as NASA, but does not have direct oversight over those agencies. This is how our government is built - to think or believe otherwise, as our current self-obsessed, paranoid and power-hungry White House would like you to, completely goes against the concept of Amercian democracy in my opinion.

leejo

Yes I'm talking to you. You got Lucky Shot and me confused, so when I saw you quoting me using words I've never written, and then did a search on Hansen to confirm that I'd never written what you quoted, I mistakenly believed that you were being a sarcastic smartass.

Voicing one's independent opinion is a service to one's superiors in any organization. However, once voiced, and the decision is made, one either needs to shut up or move on. It's as simple as that. Just because one receives his paycheck from the taxpayer instead of customers or investors doesn't make insubordination more palatable or acceptable. Hell Bommando tolerates no debate once he makes a decision, and he's just commanding an online multiplayer first-person shooter thingie.

Shame on me? This is an issue of insubordination, not free speech. You can't run a burger king with your managers talking about what a jerk you are to anyone who will listen. This Hansen is a department head and he knows better.

As Lucky Shot pointed out, Mr. Hansen is to speak freely. On his own time and his own dime. Once he shoots his mouth off about his boss's policies, he needs to get the heave ho.

AMosely

Leejo, I no longer have any questions as to why you agree with, and even empathize with the current presidential administration. You should consider working for them, or at least the Republican party.

Sorry for mixing the posts.

Rincewind

They couldn't afford him

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~~ Veritas simplex oratio est ~~
No matter how far a wizard goes, he will always come back for his hat. --T. Pratchett

<---- You know you're getting old when you rely on your forum meta-data to remind you how old you are.

Required Reading for all TG sandboxers