Zebra

Oh, please. Name one thing the Patriot Act has done to prevent terrorism. If this law is so vital, how did we manage to survive for 200+ years facing enemies a helluva lot more sophisticated than these terrorists without it?

No, because they don't want to admit they're a bunch of gutless, uninformed sheep. Vote against something called the Patriot Act after an attack? Ha! Not likely.

I wouldn't say that in any Southern state if I were you.

1) Those things are generally considered to be a black spot on our history, not something to be proud of.

2) That was a war for the very survival of the nation. If you think a few terrorists can topple our government or occupy our country, you need to get a grip. You're a hundred times more likely to be killed by some mouthbreather on your drive to work in the morning than you are to die in a terrorist attack.

CaveDog

You know, if this was all I cared about, I would move to china. You don't see any terrorism there, and I hear you are allowed to own things now.

I think it is very wrong to be willing to give up what makes up Americans, just to aquire a bit of security. Screw that, for the feeling of security.

While there were a few things in our wire tapping laws that needed updating--ie. it makes sense to me to wire tap a person, not just a single wire--we didn't need sweeping changes in civil rights. (at least not in that direction) Like Zebra said, they don't use what they have, why should they get more. I see government powers as a bit like budget if you ask me: there is an upper limit, but if you use wisely what you have, you might get more of it, but if you squander it, forget about getting more of it, and you might get less.


I love the people that say that the government hasn't missused any of its newly aquired powers. #1, if it is such a secret law, how do you know. And #2, that isn't how our government works (or used to work, I guess). We have a constitution that sets guidelines that limits government to certain things and goes to great lengths to prevent loopholes with the understanding that anything that is left to the imagination is fair game. I think the government should have the right to do anything needed within the conscripts of the law/constitution, and it is up to the people limit those powers to what is deemed reasonable. It would be hard to say that congress really has the mandate to pass laws this big, this secret, this draconian, and say that "We The People" did it.

And by the way, just because Lincoln did something, doesn't make it right (it may make me like him less). Just because we survived doesn't make it the right thing to do. Just because something is the right thing to do once, doesn't mean that it can/should be applied in all situations. This isn't civil war. And like I said before, there are probably a few things to which this "Invasion" requires changes, but sweeping changes to civil rights isn't one of them. (imho)

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CaveDog
"Go sell crazy somewhere else... we're all stocked up here."

CaveDog

I know this is a pretty serious discussion, but LMAO.

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CaveDog
"Go sell crazy somewhere else... we're all stocked up here."

CingularDuality

LOL, I'm not allowed to talk about it...

That said, you're right about most of the rest... In general, better enforcement of existing laws would more effectively protect us from terrorism. There are parts of the Patriot Act that I feel were very necessary updates to existing laws that allow our law enforcement to keep up with the advancements in technologies that have been made recently.

You've shown me that my political views are becoming increasingly biased by my job. Thank you for that, Zebra.

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webfaq

PM the link please.

CingularDuality

I think Lowdrag said his link didn't work anymore... Maybe someone else can hook you up?

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