leejo

The same reason why I stand at parade rest? Unlike Nick Berg, HE knew how the movie ended and probably wanted to make a good impression.

CingularDuality

OK, the video that I've seen must not be the complete video, as I don't have a reference for this comment.

Johnny, can you PM me the link to the video that you have, please?

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Geisha

I know I can't watch this, having thrown up half-way through Clockwork Orange (the film class professor kindly let me leave for the rest) and getting the shakes from mere still images of WW2... I have a graphic imagination, the unfortunate ability to place myself first-person in stories I've heard (this makes for some truly horrible nightmares), and enough medical background to imagine things at least semi-accurately. So, knowing that I can't actually watch this myself, can someone tell me how convincing the video actually is? It seems to me that minor flaws described would perversely convince me of its veracity - someone who went to the trouble to fake this & distribute it would surely make certain it was perfect? Accents don't bother me - religious extremist and terrorists are not limited to Iraqi or even mid-Eastern heritage and Arabic doesn't necessarily have to be their first language. The reading thing - maybe the guy needs glasses, maybe the guy isn't very literate, maybe the ink is exceptionally smeared because Arabic's an easy language to smear. The well-known dead man's name with the mask doesn't bother me - it's a valid tactic to claim someone else's name to help hide your identity, reference General Ludd and the original Luddites in England. The chair and the colored walls seem pretty insignificant, plastic chairs are common and yellow is one of those institutionalized colors. The overweightness and the orange jumpsuits are points I'll actually consider, but shock that a man anywhere in the world today is wearing sneakers? Give me a break. Now the Berg backstory is pretty interesting if there is something to back that up?

GhostintheShell

People stand at parade rest because they were trained to stand that way, not because they chose it to look important. I've never seen a civilian stand that way on purpose, except maybe a cop but maybe they are trained that rest stance as well.

I've never been in any military training, and I don't usually stand that way. I don't think "terrorist camp" training would include being told to stand at "parade rest", but maybe they where trained by some military group.

BTW, you can see the "guy standing on the left" in one of the linked "imagestation" pictures above in the article I posted.

I like some of Geisha's counterpoints re: sneakers and yellow walls, but what about the orange jumpsuit, and the guy with the wedding ring on his right hand. The right hand in Islam is reserved for "unclean" functions such as bathroom functions. It is completely forbidden is Islam to wear your wedding ring on that hand for a man. Why would terrorists put him in an orange jumpsuit?

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Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
Ernest Hemingway, "On the Blue Water," Esquire, April 1936

leejo

I just disagree with your interpretation of "parade rest". I see a guy standing with his hands behind his back and I've seen that a lot. It's also possible that the man DID receive military training in Iraq, or Iran, or Syria, etc.

Interesting point with regard to the "gold" "wedding band": How do you know it's gold and how do you know it's a wedding band?

From http://www.islam-online.net/fatwa/en...FatwaID=39133:

"If the ring is silver, there is nothing wrong in both men and women wearing it. But if the ring is made of gold, women can wear it, while men cannot. At-Tirmidhi relates through the authentic chain of narration that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: 'Wearing gold is forbidden for male Muslims, but it is allowed for female Muslims.'”


If I were a terrorist about to chop a guy's head off and I planned to rant about the link between my act and the abuse at Abu Ghraib, I might dress the poor guy up in an orange jumpsuit to complete the image. Putting someone in an orange jumpsuit may have assisted in their efforts to depersonalize him, and to give themselves an air of legitimacy, if only in their own minds, by dressing Berg up as a prisoner instead of as a hostage or simple murder victim.

Again, I do not see these "signs" as anything that adds up, and I am troubled by the effort to reinvent the facts of this matter.

DudeMan

erm can we please rtemember that many members of iraqis army were just disbanded and set free into the civillian population. it would therefore seem lo0gical that the people who were best equipeed mentally and phisically (i.e the ambush would be planned properly) would be a millitary man.

i dont see it as a suprise at all that the guy ('s) were trained. they are probably ex millitary or barthparty. or as leejo said trained in syria, lets not forget that terrorists are pouring from syhria and alot of the violence being caused is now not just comming from natives in villages but others. the three syrian gunmen in the truck as an example.

p.s your posted consiracy ghost, i know you did not write it but i think you will find that alot of that is untrue, just a hunch im not going to do the research but i have rerad so many conspiracy therories and when i did the rersearch they were proved untrue. you have to ask your self if this is some kind of american plot or hoax why would the american army officials and cia for that matter allow the guys work and such b e announced if it didnt exist, it would be so easy to fraud that material with thte cia computers.

GhostintheShell

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Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
Ernest Hemingway, "On the Blue Water," Esquire, April 1936

DudeMan

interesting statement?


lol

did you say something you regretted

GhostintheShell

Yes. No point in arguing about something that I don't have a well formed opinion on.

Here's what I think so far;

I think the video is a hoax, but I don't think the US psyops guys made it or they would have done a better job.

These are the questions I have.
What's the motive for the video? Terrorism?
What did the producer's hope to achieve? A heightened level of terror?
What was actually achieved? Is the general public more scared or more p.o.'d?

I brought the original post here because I didn't know what to think of it, and I thought if any group might give me some good viewpoints/thoughts on it it would be the TG crowd.

__________________
Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
Ernest Hemingway, "On the Blue Water," Esquire, April 1936

CingularDuality

I'm at pretty much the same point as you, Ghost. I simply don't know what to think about this...

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USN_Squid

"So we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us but coffins after coffins ... slaughtered in this way."


If you do not believe this is about good versus evil...Well, words escape me

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DudeMan

i dont think its a hoax, and if it is not the guy we think it is maybe it is an old video fo some other killing but it s not a hoax someone died on that video.

CingularDuality

**WARNING: Possibly offensive descriptions in my post!**

Well, I just watched the video that you are all talking about. Previously, I had not seen the portion of the video where the guy is reading the speech. I'm now more convinced than ever that something fishy is going on here. At one point during the monologue (actually 2:42:40ish), the guy coughs/clears his throat and covers his mouth with his fist while doing so! If there's one thing that I dislike about dealing with middle-easterners at work, it's the fact that they don't have a problem coughing or sneezing on you. They simply don't cover their mouth when they cough. The parade rest thing is pretty far fetched. I can't even imagine a US Army puke fidgeting that much while standing at "parade rest".

Everything else that I noticed has been pointed out already. I will re-emphasize that it certainly appears that the head was chopped off of an already dead body. I've personally seen a head taken almost completely off of a body and the blood flowed like a water faucet. The human heart is an amazing pump and there's a LOT of blood in our bodies... There was very little blood in the video. And, of course, the video index changes and the audio transition is horrible...

I'm positive that this video is not what we all first thought it was. I don't know who did it or for what reason, but it's not simply some terrorists cutting off the head of an American. There's more to it than just that, I think.

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DudeMan

dead or not cing it has to have been freshly dead because as soon as you kill a man his blood starts to congeal, if you have ever gutted a large fish you will know this.

so at the most it was dead 24 hours or less. who was it and who killed the person if the actual throat cut wasnt the cause.

Zebra

Does it even matter? Terrorism is calculated to generate an emotional response from the public that will overwhelm rational policy decisions. Whether it's fear or anger, their ends are still served.

Somebody died in a war zone. Anybody who gives this event more thought because the gruesome methods were caught on video is allowing themselves to be manipulated.