Quest Shady

Wow after finally looking at all the carttons I have to say none of them are any worse then you would find in any political satire magazine or the New Yorker about the current president of the time or any hot button issue that is going down. Every once in a blue moon one of these papers may have to print a retraction if they go too far overboard but thats the extent...no deaths no burning...

As far as Steeler considering these riots as a form of debate...well now that is like giving credance to a temper tantrum child. Do as they say or they riot? We are now in the year 2006 and yes war still goes on but if your unhappy about something you do not burn an embassy down or throw a tantrum of this magnitude.

Besides, the rioters only give credance to the pictures or words against them. If you just blow it off then you take away the ammo. Words have no power except the power you give to them. Unless those words are...."Head Shot" from Whistler's sniper rifle....

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Steeler

I did not say this, nor do I excuse the actions of the rioters. I thought I was pretty clear about that.

Although I do think we need to be aware of the local political influence, such as this imam Gryphon mentioned.

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Root

Why are the media so intent on portraying the protesters as muslims? When you hold up a sign calling for the extermination of those who make fun of islam, you are in no way a muslim. I'm sure a little research will show that "thou shall not kill" is common to muslims, jews and christians.

These loud voices, which belong to hypocrits at best, are up in arms over something that western civilization finds perfectly acceptable - taking the piss out of religion. Let's face it - religion of any flavour is good for nothing else. At the same time as they're committing all manner of criminal acts, including inciting racial hatred, they're printing anti-jewish cartoons of a similar vein. I'd love to get hold of some of the protestors and ask why they're not buring down offices of the newspaper that printed those cartoons.

In a democracy, if someone makes fun of your religion, you have the right to suck it up, you have the right to respond in kind, and / or you have the right to laugh it off. If you want free speech, you have to be prepared to listen to a guy saying things that make your blood boil, and accept that he's exercising the exact same right that you have to say something equally offensive.

These people don't have a clue what islam is really about, and it's disgusting that they use it as an excuse to break the law. They're no different than the PIRA killing people because they're protestant, or the black and tans doing the same because people are catholic.

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Ben

Lock, load and open fire at will

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A battle is dynamic, i.e constantly changing and evolving. Follow the strategy in place but never be afraid to improvise if the situation calls for it.
All I ask for is communication

Root

Care to expand on your point?

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USN_Squid

Who are you to question their devotion? If you say Islam is a religion of peace I agree with you that at it's core it must be. But just browse the photos here from Iran, Lebanon, Israel, Egypt, Pakistan, India, Indonesia, Afghanistan, Austria, New Zealand, Jordan, Iraq, and on and on.

The real problem is these people are the voice of today's Muslim. Just ask them and they will tell you they are the true Muslims and those that disagree are inifidels....period.

This is my favorite:



Yes, it's a photoshop but is it really any different than what they're saying? Here's a real one:

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Root

I'm a guy using the right to free speech to question it. I'm a guy that can see that they're hypocrits by their actions.

No no no. You can't be a muslim and want people to be killed. You can't be a jew or a christian and want people killed. Thou shall not kill is what those religions say. To claim to be a member of one of those religions and to call for people to be killed, is exactly as hypocritical as someone saying they're catholic and then having sex outside of marriage. If you're going to be part of any sort of group, you have to follow all the rules, not just the ones that suit you.

These people are using religion as an excuse. I couldn't care what religion they happen to pick. It would be mighty helpful if the people who really are muslims would do something about their religion being hijacked. If they were catholics they could be excommunicated. I don't know if islam has an equivilant.

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Trooper

i would just like to point out that islam was founded on violence. When muhammed first got his visions from the muslim GOD he started to "preach" but no one liked what he was saying, so he fled to mecca. He gatherd an army and returnd to "force" the visions and beliefs on the people of the area, and anyone who apposed this was killed.

Any religion that is founded on violence is only gonna breed more violence

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

Root

That may be the case, but it's meant to be a religion of peace.

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USN_Squid

Exactly, that was my point.

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aeroripper

Can't most religions take that credit?

Root

Yes, which is why you can go through my original post, and replace all references to islam with references to catholicism if the Irish start rioting next time there's a cartoon taking the piss out of the 6 counties in the NW or Ireland being under occupation.

I don't like religion, but I'm prepared to tolerate it if it's members are going to follow all the rules of whatever religion they allow themselves to be sucked in to. I don't tolerate idiots however, and these so-called muslims who want special laws to protect islam from harmless mickey-taking are IDIOTS. The fact that they make so much noise, and cause so much trouble simply makes them the dangerous kind of idiot.

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Addict

Heh, just to stir the pot a little, didn't we establish in a recent thread that this is actually not quite correct? It is more correct to quote it as "Thou shall not murder". Killing is sactioned in some cases. I think this came up in the capital punishment thread. So them wanting to kill someone is not BY DEFINITION against the "Thou shall not murder" tenet.

I would think killing innocent victims would be "murder", but what if they feel that the artist of these illistrations is not innocent?

We seem to all say "If the law says speech(journalism) is free, and I wish to insult someone, should I make an exception because the subject is muslim?". Consider, if a muslim were to make such an illistration, and the penalty is death, should the muslim countries make an exception because the perpetrator is not muslim?

(yeah, personally, I think they can dislike it all they want, the violence being perpetrated in response to a cartoon(however offensive) is out of proportion to the insult. Even boycotting Danish goods seems ok to me(if a little extreme), as an expression of just how deeply they feel about something, to let the world know this is serious to them. So if my argument, and attempt at playing devil's advocate (no pun intended, no insult/insinuation intended either, sheesh i hate the need for these disclaimers) falls a little short, please forgive me. I'm trying to wrap my head around the response)

Root

Unless "they" happen to be a jury in a court of law, "they" have my permission to grow up. We don't hand out the death sentence for cartoons that make fun of other people.

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SmokingTarpan

Popes and other religious leaders have proven the opposite true time and again.

Personally, I believe that there are few, if any, true (insert religious type) of any kind around. The religious texts and preached words have been changed so many times throughout history by those in power that we have no clue what a true anything is. For all we know, the first religious texts could have said that God wants you to kill anyone with green eyes because they are evil.

In my opinion, no one should really say anything about how any particular religion should act. Unless you have a direct phone line to the Supreme Being(s), absolutely no one- clergy included- has any idea of what they should be doing. Instead, everyone just does what they think is most right, and the people with similar beliefs flock together. Part of my reason why I think religion should be a private thing, and not pressed upon others.

But what do I know, I'm just a heathen.

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[squadl]
"I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo