Boot

Root, I agree with almost everything you've said in this thread, but it is entirely possible for "Islam" to preach killing without it being in the Koran. There are many documented cases of Islamic clerics promoting violence -- by definition preaching -- including Abu Hamza al-Masr, today convicted of inciting followers to kill non-Muslims in Britain.

If Hamza were not an Islamic cleric, we'd consider him a kook like the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. As is, he is not only an active Muslim cleric, but he is not alone in his appointment or attitude.

I realize that the majority of Muslims and their leadership do not condone this activity, but those that do number too many to be ignored. Until the members of peaceful Islam can engage and drown out the voice of their militant brothers, Islam earns its own reputation as a spade.

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Boot.

In Soviet Russia, TV watches YOU.

CingularDuality

Not just because she wore a short skirt... Look, I posted a pic of the cartoon here, because I didn't think that it would offend anyone. We don't have a large population of tense muslims at TG.

Denmark (heck, most of Scandinavia) has had a lot of racial/religious tension lately. The newspaper obviously was aware of this.

So, instead of just saying it's like a pretty girl wearing a short skirt, let's say that it's like a pretty girl wearing a short skirt to visit a halfway house of prisoners just released after serving 10 years for various violent sexual offenses.

She certainly has the right to wear her skirt wherever she wants, but she has to recognize that it's unwise to dress provocatively in certain situations.

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Steeler

Yes, we are firmly in the realm of Little Green Footballs now. Yay.

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munchkin

Agreed.

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munchkin

Source?

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Boot

I've had two interesting conversations in Europe in the last 6 months that relate to this point. The first was with a dark-skinned young woman in a Finnish bar whose mother was from Bulgaria and father from Niger. They both moved to Finland where she was born. She is 100% Finnish... or... not. Her description of what life was like growing up as a minority of one in a very homogenous culture saddened me. She did not describe active racism, but she never felt like she belonged -- anywhere.

The other conversation was with one of my professional colleagues from Germany, who just flat out wondered why anyone who was "not German" would want to move there and stay. This gentleman is a kind, openhearted man who literally gave his coat to one of my friends that night because it was cold out, yet he could not understand this concept.

On a more major events note, recall the riots in France were based on second-generation immigrants not feeling vested in the national culture.

The point is that most countries in Europe are not open. Call it racism, culturalism, ethno-centricity, whatever. This issue is widespread and has its extreme, ethnic-cleansing sides as well. It provides a certain arrogant air, in some countries worse than others, but you can see that this is not just some innocent free press mistake, this is rooted deeper on the European side as well.

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Boot.

In Soviet Russia, TV watches YOU.

Ben

The Source is not only from the Koran, but also from studies on the Koran as well as commentaries by Muslim scholars of the centuries.
Please go to this link and read, you might learn a few things about this so called "peacful" religion.

http://www.pmw.org.il/KAJ_eng.htm

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A battle is dynamic, i.e constantly changing and evolving. Follow the strategy in place but never be afraid to improvise if the situation calls for it.
All I ask for is communication

Steeler

Palestinian Media Watch? Palestinians do not represent all Muslim theology. Which is kind of the point others have been trying to make here - the actions, rhetoric and crimes of a few do not represent the collective whole, even if they claim some special theological authority. In other words, condemning all Muslims and all of Islam based on the extremists is racism.

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Ben

Who here is branding all muslims terrorists? Not me. i am saying very clearly that modern islam is turning the way of chaos and destruction. Fanatacism is overwhelming amongst the Muslim nations as a whole and it is only growing. They are practicing Islam in a fanatic way but not in a way that is against Islam. Kill the Infidel!! It is straight out of the Koran.

http://www.a-voice.org/discern/islam.htm

this link is a bit more on topic regarding the Religion of Islam and their attitudes towards other people outside the faith.

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A battle is dynamic, i.e constantly changing and evolving. Follow the strategy in place but never be afraid to improvise if the situation calls for it.
All I ask for is communication

phyllis

Let's tone it down a notch, please.

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Addict

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11216508/

A prominant Iranian newspaper is holding a "holocaust cartoon contest" in direct response to the Danish cartoons. It is self described as a test to see if western freedom of expression ideals hold true when the situation is reversed.

I'm sure if it is given media attention it will inflame the situation, and probably not help, but I thought it actually a decent intelectual challenge to the original cartoons! Distasteful things are protected? Ok, lets see how much you really believe that, and how hypocritical you may be!

[edit]another article about it:
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411319/657903

I think this article included more info, and people's reactions to this.

Trooper

The idea of trying to get back at the source is a good idea, very smart actually. But the topic of the contest is so very much different. The artist of the cartoons was depicting the muslm god as a terrorist, not millions of people being sluaghtered/genocide. If they could find another topic say the freedoms we have on the dollar menu at McDonalds or something that might piss alot of people off but this is just going to make all muslims look bad.

Ben made a one good statement, the fanatic muslims are making this hard and violent for all of the muslims.

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

USN_Squid

Pick a video any video. These are directly from Mosques and Imams. Or is that not really Islam? I guess the one of the Imam in Mecca could still be a hypocrite. Hard to shoot this messenger even though LGF frequently links it eh?

It won't let me link the search, so choose subject "Sermons from Mosques in the Middle East"

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Barracuda_Magoo

I've only skimmed this thread, but I thought I'd throw my worthless opinion into the ring.

The newspaper was, obviously, within their right to publish the cartoons, but I wish they had used a little more tact (a commodity that seems to be in short supply everywhere). The Muslim community has plenty of reason to be upset, and they're within their rights with the boycott (though I think it's stupid to punish the whole country because of a few people). That said, the attacks on embassies (and protesters calling for Danish blood) are unbelievably over the line and ruined any chance the Muslim community had of getting sympathy.

I know the majority of Muslims are fine people, but it seems like the radicals are getting stronger and stronger. Often there are clerics that denounce such actions, but (as others pointed out) the lack of central hierarchy seems to allow individuals to follow whichever cleric's teachings they want.


This article seemed to demonstrate the conflicting groups within Islam:http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L05661059.htm

The protesters attacked three fire engines to stop them from extinguishing the blaze and hung up a banner at the building's entrance reading: "We are ready to sacrifice our children for you, O Prophet Mohammad."

Compared to

Several Sunni Muslim clerics were on the streets urging restraint and asking protesters, who came from across the country, to leave the scene, a Reuters witness said.
Some protesters stoned a Christian Maronite church nearby and a group of Muslim clerics went to the church to apologise, witnesses said.

At least someone gets it:
Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora told private Future television: "This has nothing to do with Islam at all.
"Destabilising security and vandalism gives a wrong image of Islam. The Prophet Mohammad cannot be defended this way."


Just to lighten the mood:

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Faultline

Interestingly enough, they choose the Holocaust to "test" free speech. They really have it in for Israel don't they?

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