New word for the language filters - Page 2

aesop rock · 02-23-2006, 03:39 AM

It's not that the word 'boy' is derrogatory, in itself, when used in its normal context. However, it has been used, throughout the ages, to specifically address blacks, in reference to being in servtitude. It came directly from slave times. I am kinda disappointed by all the joking around about the subject. If you want to call your friends 'boy' in that context, in private, thats fine. Just like you can call your friend toots or sweet cheeks. But you pull that crap in work, with people who are not your friends, and it's on.

Be smart. Know your dialect.

**CingularDuality** · 02-23-2006, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aesop rock

It's not that the word 'boy' is derrogatory, in itself, when used in its normal context. However, it has been used, throughout the ages, to specifically address blacks, in reference to being in servtitude. It came directly from slave times.

It did NOT come directly from the slave times. Calling an adult "boy" has been derogatory for much longer than America has existed. The fact that slavers took to using that particular negative expression does not make it any more derogatory, does it?

**Wyzcrak** · 02-23-2006, 11:19 AM

aero, the "kids" doesn't bother me. I've yet to hear the term from anyone who meant it derogatorily. My experience with that word, especially on TGNS, has it used by people humble enough to acknowledge that we all have a lot to learn, about ourselves and others. I've heard the term used in a tone which includes the speaker in the designation as much as the listeners.

Steeler · 02-23-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

It did NOT come directly from the slave times. Calling an adult "boy" has been derogatory for much longer than America has existed. The fact that slavers took to using that particular negative expression does not make it any more derogatory, does it?

It does if you're black, and it's a white guy saying it. It's all about context.

People have been using the word Jew for hundreds of years. Sometimes it is a factual statement, i.e. "That man is wearing a yarmulke, he must be a Jew." Sometimes it is derogatory, i.e. "Why do you have to be such a Jew about it?"

Context.

**Wyzcrak** · 02-23-2006, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

It did NOT come directly from the slave times. Calling an adult "boy" has been derogatory for much longer than America has existed. The fact that slavers took to using that particular negative expression does not make it any more derogatory, does it?

Yes, for the reason below and others I'm not educated enough to cite.

Within the slavery context, "boy" has, in addition to the derogatory intent already acknowledged, a history as an abbreviation for "House Boy," or "House Nigger." This would have been one of the slaves "privileged" enough to be in the house (as opposed to "Field Nigger"), due maybe to light skin color or behavior.

Imagine two wars. The term "gloshull" pre-dates both. Being a gloshull in the first war is bad. Isolation. No food. But they don't beat you and kill your family. In the second war, they regularly beat prisoners, often bringing their family members in front of them and decapitating them, forcing you on your hands and knees afterwards, to clean the mess. The point is, for the sake of brevity: the second war brings traumas and agony to the term that simply didn't exist for those who used it previously.

Sure, the term "gloshull" pre-dates the second war, but I'm prepared to declare it more derogatory to call the descendant of a second-war gloshull by that term than it is to assign it to someone not at all related to the war, especially given the likelihood that the other person (who might be called "gloshull," but has no association to the second war whatsoever) doesn't even know the term's history within the context of the second war.

AMosely · 02-23-2006, 12:01 PM

It doesn't seem to me that the problem with this case is the language of the term 'boy,' but rather that the two employees in question were passed over for a promotion that was given to someone with less experience. 'Boy' can be used in a derogatory way depending on the context.

I agree with most of you, this is a matter of contextual details. I assume the Supreme Court did not find sufficient evidence to prove discrimination.

Buck Fush · 02-23-2006, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

It could be scarier. We could filter on legibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

If I learned that you were using "boy" in the pejorative way that people use "gay," I'm remove that language -- and, if necessary, the speaker -- with the same haste that I remove the latter.

Geez, you better hope we don't start that.

**Pokerface** · 02-23-2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Fush

Geez, you better hope we don't start that.

That was legible. It was just wrong. :P

**Wyzcrak** · 02-23-2006, 02:05 PM

I was gonna let it go. lol

Buck Fush · 02-23-2006, 02:21 PM

One of the services my company provides is closed captioning of conference calls. We have to implement a language filter to prevent our captioners from typing something that would be considered offensive. (I still don't get why deaf people don't have the same right to be offended by the idiots around them.) One of the words in the filter is "monkey". How far do we go? How many more words are we going to need to remove from our lexicon?

Intent does not always seem to matter. On Oprah recently she was interviewing the two families that participated in the black/white switch.(1) One of the things that set the black family off was that the white mother had referred to someone as a "beautiful black creature". Her intent was not insult anyone, yet the entire black family perceived it as such.

Is it possible that these two guys are misinterpreting a hick's use of the word boy? Is it possible that these two guys were passed over for a management position for someone who was just more qualified to be a manager? I have been passed over for a management position after being with a company for more than a year for a guy who had been there for only two weeks. Why? I write code a lot better than I manage people. I was more valuable to the company in a non-management role.

(1) A reality show that took a black family and a white family and switched their races using makeup to see if they were treated differently.

aesop rock · 02-23-2006, 05:01 PM

- It is entirely possible that the so-called victims of racism have misunderstood the speaker's intention.

- It is entirely fact that the speaker has offended the so-called victim.

- It is entirely fact that, until speakers understand their dialect, they may continue to offend without intention.

**DudeMan** · 02-23-2006, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aesop rock

It's not that the word 'boy' is derrogatory, in itself, when used in its normal context. However, it has been used, throughout the ages, to specifically address blacks, in reference to being in servtitude. It came directly from slave times. I am kinda disappointed by all the joking around about the subject. If you want to call your friends 'boy' in that context, in private, thats fine. Just like you can call your friend toots or sweet cheeks. But you pull that crap in work, with people who are not your friends, and it's on.

Be smart. Know your dialect.

yeah whatever mate, i am not going to walk around watching such petty fricken crap... if someone misunderstands me thats their problem... im using the English language, and ill use it as i damned well please. why does the explanation here (not just yours) of why we should not use this word, as bring it on or you will find out..... well ill takje my chances, i have survived this long with out cowering behind pathetic misinterpretations... i think i will do just fine after... thanks.

oh and cing is correct, its not a product of slavery, although anything (and this is aimed at noone but the same place this probably came from) "the black comunity" seems to come back to that...

same i suppose as anything done these days that a muslim does not like it inherently because of evil west against Islam.... race is a useful tool in quashing arguments...

again i quoted this post, as iot is loosly a reply to something you said,. but it is not intended to offend anyone, just some observations....

**DudeMan** · 02-23-2006, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeler

It does if you're black, and it's a white guy saying it. It's all about context.

no sorry not happy with this, if you take offense because its a white guy saying it... it is you who is racist. after all, racism is not a one way game... (subjective use of the word "you" here)

Steeler · 02-23-2006, 05:59 PM

Dudeman, you may not be happy with it, but here is the sad fact:

In the United States, if you are white and you call a black man "boy" in a derogatory fashion, he is likely to take offense. And his offense will be VERY racially aware. It is not the content of the statement, it is the context that makes it offensive.

And, uh, no, racism does not require two people to play. You can be racist all by your lonesome, OR you can have someone staring back at you who's just as racist. But that is not relevant to this discussion, as you can still say something racially offensive without actually being racist.

**DudeMan** · 02-23-2006, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeler

Dudeman, you may not be happy with it, but here is the sad fact.
And, uh, no, racism does not req

edit..... never mind... this is what i saw on my screen and quoted.... and the rest wasnt there.... oddd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeler

And, uh, no, racism does not require two people to play. You can be racist all by your lonesome, OR you can have someone staring back at you who's just as racist. But that is not relevant to this discussion, as you can still say something racially offensive without actually being racist

thats not what i was getting at, what i was saying is, just because the person saying it is white, you jump to the conclusion it is racist with racial connotations... means it is your racial prejudice that forced this opinion... (again subjective you)

02-23-2006, 03:39 AM	#16 (permalink)
aesop rock Join Date: May 2005 Location: Olympia, WA Age: 27 Posts: 321	Re: New word for the language filters It's not that the word 'boy' is derrogatory, in itself, when used in its normal context. However, it has been used, throughout the ages, to specifically address blacks, in reference to being in servtitude. It came directly from slave times. I am kinda disappointed by all the joking around about the subject. If you want to call your friends 'boy' in that context, in private, thats fine. Just like you can call your friend toots or sweet cheeks. But you pull that crap in work, with people who are not your friends, and it's on. Be smart. Know your dialect. __________________ "Who put the fun in dysfunctional? I." - Aesop Rock (http://www.mushrecords.com/release.php?REAID=38) "Cuz you can choose to say 'Good morning, God' or 'Good God.. morning!" -Blackalicious It is my firm belief that, until we humans stop using human nature as an excuse for our actions, we will never realize our true nature.

02-23-2006, 11:19 AM	#18 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: New word for the language filters aero, the "kids" doesn't bother me. I've yet to hear the term from anyone who meant it derogatorily. My experience with that word, especially on TGNS, has it used by people humble enough to acknowledge that we all have a lot to learn, about ourselves and others. I've heard the term used in a tone which includes the speaker in the designation as much as the listeners. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

02-23-2006, 12:01 PM	#21 (permalink)
AMosely Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Maine Age: 34 Posts: 2,793	Re: New word for the language filters It doesn't seem to me that the problem with this case is the language of the term 'boy,' but rather that the two employees in question were passed over for a promotion that was given to someone with less experience. 'Boy' can be used in a derogatory way depending on the context. I agree with most of you, this is a matter of contextual details. I assume the Supreme Court did not find sufficient evidence to prove discrimination.

02-23-2006, 02:05 PM	#24 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: New word for the language filters I was gonna let it go. lol __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

02-23-2006, 02:21 PM	#25 (permalink)
Buck Fush Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 608	Re: New word for the language filters One of the services my company provides is closed captioning of conference calls. We have to implement a language filter to prevent our captioners from typing something that would be considered offensive. (I still don't get why deaf people don't have the same right to be offended by the idiots around them.) One of the words in the filter is "monkey". How far do we go? How many more words are we going to need to remove from our lexicon? Intent does not always seem to matter. On Oprah recently she was interviewing the two families that participated in the black/white switch.(1) One of the things that set the black family off was that the white mother had referred to someone as a "beautiful black creature". Her intent was not insult anyone, yet the entire black family perceived it as such. Is it possible that these two guys are misinterpreting a hick's use of the word boy? Is it possible that these two guys were passed over for a management position for someone who was just more qualified to be a manager? I have been passed over for a management position after being with a company for more than a year for a guy who had been there for only two weeks. Why? I write code a lot better than I manage people. I was more valuable to the company in a non-management role. (1) A reality show that took a black family and a white family and switched their races using makeup to see if they were treated differently.

02-23-2006, 05:01 PM	#26 (permalink)
aesop rock Join Date: May 2005 Location: Olympia, WA Age: 27 Posts: 321	Re: New word for the language filters - It is entirely possible that the so-called victims of racism have misunderstood the speaker's intention. - It is entirely fact that the speaker has offended the so-called victim. - It is entirely fact that, until speakers understand their dialect, they may continue to offend without intention. __________________ "Who put the fun in dysfunctional? I." - Aesop Rock (http://www.mushrecords.com/release.php?REAID=38) "Cuz you can choose to say 'Good morning, God' or 'Good God.. morning!" -Blackalicious It is my firm belief that, until we humans stop using human nature as an excuse for our actions, we will never realize our true nature.

02-23-2006, 05:59 PM	#29 (permalink)
Steeler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Taxachusetts Age: 30 Posts: 2,952	Re: New word for the language filters Dudeman, you may not be happy with it, but here is the sad fact: In the United States, if you are white and you call a black man "boy" in a derogatory fashion, he is likely to take offense. And his offense will be VERY racially aware. It is not the content of the statement, it is the context that makes it offensive. And, uh, no, racism does not require two people to play. You can be racist all by your lonesome, OR you can have someone staring back at you who's just as racist. But that is not relevant to this discussion, as you can still say something racially offensive without actually being racist. __________________

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