New word for the language filters - Page 3

Steeler · 02-23-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

edit..... never mind... this is what i saw on my screen and quoted.... and the rest wasnt there.... oddd

Yeah, I had to re-edit that window a few times before it stuck. Odd.

Quote:

thats not what i was getting at, what i was saying is, just because the person saying it is white, you jump to the conclusion it is racist with racial connotations... means it is your racial prejudice that forced this opinion... (again subjective you)

If you had ever heard someone use "boy" as an insult in this context, you'd know with a lot of certainty that it is almost exclusively a racial thing. There is a specific tone that is difficult to express in text. I'm not talking about a white teacher asking his black students to come in from the hallway, or a casual exchange between friends or acquaintances, I'm talking about a tone of derision and dismissal that transcends the word itself and becomes something patently offensive.

I would also submit that knowing when you are being insulted is not racism, it's just a matter of being able to read other people accurately. If your read is inaccurate, you may be oblivious to it or far too sensitive.

**DudeMan** · 02-23-2006, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeler

Yeah, I had to re-edit that window a few times before it stuck. Odd.

If you had ever heard someone use "boy" as an insult in this context, you'd know with a lot of certainty that it is almost exclusively a racial thing. There is a specific tone that is difficult to express in text. I'm not talking about a white teacher asking his black students to come in from the hallway, or a casual exchange between friends or acquaintances, I'm talking about a tone of derision and dismissal that transcends the word itself and becomes something patently offensive.

I would also submit that knowing when you are being insulted is not racism, it's just a matter of being able to read other people accurately. If your read is inaccurate, you may be oblivious to it or far too sensitive.

well we dont see eye to eye on this because i think if im going to offend someone i dont need to use a racist slogan.

and if it is not accuratly expressed in text, there is no need for a filter is there...

Steeler · 02-23-2006, 06:40 PM

Most racists are at heart not that creative. I appreciate a well thought-out personally tailored insult much more than an an easy button.

And yes, most word filters are very silly.

**DudeMan** · 02-23-2006, 06:42 PM

agreed. 100%

Keres · 02-23-2006, 08:56 PM

Well since we're on the subject ofusing the word boy offensively... what about when guys call each other girls/women? Now, that is derogatory.

**Wyzcrak** · 02-23-2006, 09:09 PM

Yeah, and I do that a lot. I do it only with people who know it's in good fun, but rarely am I exclusively in such company, so I'm not really "just with my friends" at all.

I've actually tried to curb my usage of that term when I'm around the ladies. One more way to raise the bar, I guess.

**DudeMan** · 02-24-2006, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keres

Well since we're on the subject ofusing the word boy offensively... what about when guys call each other girls/women? Now, that is derogatory.

to be honest we could go on for days and days about words like this... girls, boy, even some people take offense to mate, wich i use all the time, because it is part and parcel of cockney talk. the fact remains that people can take what is said as they pleasde, but just as people better be ready to take the critisism if they use the words, so muist those who so easily take offense.... the problem with forums is you can never tell exactly what the intent behind a sentence is... the cause of many a quarrel.

Buck Fush · 02-24-2006, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeler

If I'm reading the article correctly, the SCOTUS knocked down the appeals court decision simply because the argument for dismissal was too narrow. As in, they merely considered the use of the word "boy" as the central complaint and not the other facts of the case. In fact, they seemed to dismiss the case as frivolous specifically because of the percieved insult, i.e. "someone got uppity after being called 'boy,' therefore the case is patently without merit."

Somehow I missed this when you posted it. That is an excellent analysis of the decision and probably the only on topic post. The rest of us have hijacked my thread.

**CingularDuality** · 02-24-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keres

Well since we're on the subject ofusing the word boy offensively... what about when guys call each other girls/women? Now, that is derogatory.

Derogatory to who?

You're talking about when, say, a football coach says, "Let's get moving, ladies!" to his all-male team?

aesop rock · 02-24-2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keres

Well since we're on the subject ofusing the word boy offensively... what about when guys call each other girls/women? Now, that is derogatory.

I totally agree, and I almost mentioned that in my post. 'Don't be a woman' or 'You're acting like a woman' etc are very common forms of insult, usually between friends, but not always. They are, indeed, quite sexist. The fact that Keres pointed it out proves that you need not be the direct subject of bigotry to be directly affected.

Dudeman, I am dissapointed by your decision to remain dialectically apathetic, but I recognize that it is your choice, and is protected by the First Amendment. You also misunderstand my post, and in my opinion, what should be the point behind this thread.

No one here is trying to tell you or anyone else what words they are allowed to speak. But rather to concur: There are some words that carry bigoted connotations, regardless of your awareness. If you are attempting to put someone down, they will pick up on it. As Steeler said, most people of a given race are more sensitive/aware of the slurs against their minority. GENERALLY, if you aren't trying to insult someone, and you happen to stumble on some words that can be misinterpreted, you're gonna be safe. The American work environment is EXTRAORDINARILY sensitive about these issues, however, and so IMO the law suit has merit. I gather, from your dialect, that you are not from the States...

Finally, the internet is a HAVEN for groteque prejudice and racism. It could be argued, as it has been many times, that the word 'faggot' means a bundle of sticks or a cigarette or who-knows-what-else. Wrong. They only mean that if it is part of your dialect and the hearer's dialect, as well. No one goes around calling anyone a cigarette, and no one is going to start believing that anytime soon. Intention is NOT that hard to pick up on, and if your intentions are good, Dudeman, you're prolly safe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Fush

Somehow I missed this when you posted it. That is an excellent analysis of the decision and probably the only on topic post. The rest of us have hijacked my thread.

How offensive. Buck Fush, do you really believe that the quoted post is the only 'to topic' one on this thread? Why start a forum for debate, if you'll only accept agreements [to your position] as 'on topic'? And, TBH, it isn't your thread.

- AR

**Wyzcrak** · 02-24-2006, 03:46 PM

Cing, I can imagine you not accepting this sort of stuff... calling it "PC", or, whatever.... but are you really that unaware, even?

You're associating with the very female gender (no more controllable by its carrier than sexual preference -- social argument moot and aside) the undesirable.

Buck Fush · 02-24-2006, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aesop rock

Buck Fush, do you really believe that the quoted post is the only 'to topic' one on this thread? Why start a forum for debate, if you'll only accept agreements [to your position] as 'on topic'? And, TBH, it isn't your thread.

- AR

Maybe you should try reading to comprehend rather than reading to respond. I love debate and value most people's position.

First, my comment was "The rest of us have hijacked my thread." Notice that by using the word "us" I was including myself. Obviously a joke.

Second, I started it, it's my thread. NNNBB

Buck Fush · 02-24-2006, 04:22 PM

Cing, the proper question would be "To whom?" (Take that, you grammer-correcter.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

Cing, I can imagine you not accepting this sort of stuff... calling it "PC", or, whatever.... but are you really that unaware, even?

You're associating with the very female gender (no more controllable by its carrier than sexual preference -- social argument moot and aside) the undesirable.

Can we agree that men play football better than women, or is that sexist?
Grown men also play football better than children. Should we consider a coach an "age-ist" if he makes the comment "Let's get moving, children." to grown men?

If a group of people are hyper-sensitive to certain words or behaviors that are not intended to offend them then they need to get over it.

Comparing someone in a positive or negative light to some other person is not necessarily descriminatory.

**Wyzcrak** · 02-24-2006, 05:46 PM

Comparisons are fine. Generalizations (especially faulty ones) get tricky, to say the least.

To present the football scenario as sufficiently representative of when the derogatory female slur is applied is invalid, given its common usage. Suffice it to say that, if physical strength is the only context in which you've heard this offense committed, you're not coming to the discussion with the same experiences as some others here, including, to say what I'm sure is the least, Keres and myself.

I understand your error, though. You see women DO have less physical strength. You see children DO require more management/herding than adults. The problem with this rationalization, after we acknowledge the above paragraph, is that women often enough do NOT exhibit the behavior to justify the common generalizations to which they are victim.

The same argument applies to children as it does to cancer patients, or any other group which cannot escape the group to which it finds itself belonging. You don't hear the football coach saying "is that all you've got, Chemos?" Sure, chemotherapy patients uncontrollably lack the physical strength typical seen in men and not women (that which Coach demands in his players). But you don't call the cancer patients "hyper-sensitive," because you've trained yourself, out of RESPECT for cancer patients, that you're not to mock them for something they can't control (weakness). Or maybe the fear that you might one day find yourself in that group creates in you restraint. This latter concern, if EVER present, is surely absent when referencing "the other gender".

And you sure as hell don't hear a chess coach reference chemotherapy patients as the football coach above. Even if you accept the premise that chemotherapy patients are fair targets in the football scenario, slurring them as motivation in an intellectual battle seems ridiculous to you, given that chemotherapy patients, as a group, play chess no less effectively than whomever you're motivating with the slur. In slurring them in the chess match, you're generalizing that cancer patients (all of them, given your lack of qualifiers) are too <insertnegativeadjectivehere> to play chess.

The same is true when you intimidate with threats of female association, especially when the activity you're critiquing isn't measured by ANY metric which reliably differentiates men and women.

And yet, folks use the female slur, commonly, in contexts having nothing to do with that which reliably distinguishes males from females (physical strength, etc).

This talk doesn't offend every woman (that, of course, would be another generalization), but it offends enough, and I can appreciate why.

I suppose "hyper-insensitive" is just unfair?

Buck Fush · 02-24-2006, 06:17 PM

Many good points.

Maybe I am too caught up in knowing that when I call one of my friends a girl or a fag, that I am not in any way intending to insult any one but the person I'm talking to. But I get your point that it would be insulting to be in the group that is considered to be an insult.

My hyper-sensitive statement was more aimed at the black people who believe that everything that offends them is racial in nature.

02-23-2006, 06:40 PM	#33 (permalink)
Steeler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Taxachusetts Age: 30 Posts: 2,952	Re: New word for the language filters Most racists are at heart not that creative. I appreciate a well thought-out personally tailored insult much more than an an easy button. And yes, most word filters are very silly. __________________

02-23-2006, 06:42 PM	#34 (permalink)
DudeMan Join Date: May 2003 Location: london England Age: 22 Posts: 3,258	Re: New word for the language filters agreed. 100% __________________ The Queen "Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life," *Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community* TheFeniX "Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

02-23-2006, 08:56 PM	#35 (permalink)
Keres Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Loganville, Georgia Age: 20 Posts: 498	Re: New word for the language filters Well since we're on the subject ofusing the word boy offensively... what about when guys call each other girls/women? Now, that is derogatory. __________________ -------- Zephyr: Besides Wyzcrak and his godly voice; the kind of voice that you will expect to say "Zephyr, I need you to build an ark at Marine Start, with room for two of every structure so that I may turret spam for 40 days and 40 nights" that is. Squeak:Sometimes I'm awed by zibs genius. Then I remember he's Canadian and I feel significantly less threatened.

02-23-2006, 09:09 PM	#36 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: New word for the language filters Yeah, and I do that a lot. I do it only with people who know it's in good fun, but rarely am I exclusively in such company, so I'm not really "just with my friends" at all. I've actually tried to curb my usage of that term when I'm around the ladies. One more way to raise the bar, I guess. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

02-24-2006, 03:46 PM	#41 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: New word for the language filters Cing, I can imagine you not accepting this sort of stuff... calling it "PC", or, whatever.... but are you really that unaware, even? You're associating with the very female gender (no more controllable by its carrier than sexual preference -- social argument moot and aside) the undesirable. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

02-24-2006, 05:46 PM	#44 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: New word for the language filters Comparisons are fine. Generalizations (especially faulty ones) get tricky, to say the least. To present the football scenario as sufficiently representative of when the derogatory female slur is applied is invalid, given its common usage. Suffice it to say that, if physical strength is the only context in which you've heard this offense committed, you're not coming to the discussion with the same experiences as some others here, including, to say what I'm sure is the least, Keres and myself. I understand your error, though. You see women DO have less physical strength. You see children DO require more management/herding than adults. The problem with this rationalization, after we acknowledge the above paragraph, is that women often enough do NOT exhibit the behavior to justify the common generalizations to which they are victim. The same argument applies to children as it does to cancer patients, or any other group which cannot escape the group to which it finds itself belonging. You don't hear the football coach saying "is that all you've got, Chemos?" Sure, chemotherapy patients uncontrollably lack the physical strength typical seen in men and not women (that which Coach demands in his players). But you don't call the cancer patients "hyper-sensitive," because you've trained yourself, out of RESPECT for cancer patients, that you're not to mock them for something they can't control (weakness). Or maybe the fear that you might one day find yourself in that group creates in you restraint. This latter concern, if EVER present, is surely absent when referencing "the other gender". And you sure as hell don't hear a chess coach reference chemotherapy patients as the football coach above. Even if you accept the premise that chemotherapy patients are fair targets in the football scenario, slurring them as motivation in an intellectual battle seems ridiculous to you, given that chemotherapy patients, as a group, play chess no less effectively than whomever you're motivating with the slur. In slurring them in the chess match, you're generalizing that cancer patients (all of them, given your lack of qualifiers) are too <insertnegativeadjectivehere> to play chess. The same is true when you intimidate with threats of female association, especially when the activity you're critiquing isn't measured by ANY metric which reliably differentiates men and women. And yet, folks use the female slur, commonly, in contexts having nothing to do with that which reliably distinguishes males from females (physical strength, etc). This talk doesn't offend every woman (that, of course, would be another generalization), but it offends enough, and I can appreciate why. I suppose "hyper-insensitive" is just unfair? __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

02-24-2006, 06:17 PM	#45 (permalink)
Buck Fush Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 608	Re: New word for the language filters Many good points. Maybe I am too caught up in knowing that when I call one of my friends a girl or a fag, that I am not in any way intending to insult any one but the person I'm talking to. But I get your point that it would be insulting to be in the group that is considered to be an insult. My hyper-sensitive statement was more aimed at the black people who believe that everything that offends them is racial in nature.

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