_Ender_

Thats what I was getting at.. some of you guys are insinuating that as soon as your kid drops he should instantly respect you regardless of the way you treat him. IMO thats not the case... parents have to earn the respect of the kids just like the kids earn the respect of the parents. I'm sorry, but if my parents show no respect for me, then why should I show them any in return?


BTW Cavedog, I'm 24 turning 25 in less then 2 months. I have also dated girls who have had kids... I'm not saying I am an expert with kids or anything, but I did learn a lot hanging out with the little guy (which made me not want to be a parent BTW).

DudeMan

yeah you are 15, when you have done a little growing up even a few years you may feel alot different... and btw

when i was 15 if my mum told me she would pound on me... at 6 " as i was then i would have said... yeah ok get a ladder... sorry but violendce is never the best solution. infact it isnt a solution at all. it doesnt teach anything constructive other than fear me because i am bigger than you.

it creates the sense of beliefe that because you are bigger than someone else and are able to slap them with no comeback then you must be right and the authorative person.

its a bully idealism... nothing else. dont matter which way its buttered up.

Sniper

I disagree dudeman. My mom is quite abit shorter than me, as I am almost 6feet as well. I am 5'11 inna half. If my mom OR dad say that to me, I stop instantly. I know they won't physically pound me, but they have the power, seeing as I cant hit back. They will do it too :P
Violence? It's not violence. It's a way to teach. It taught me VERY well growing up. I got spankins' all the time growing up, and I feel great about how I act. As for my brother, who is younger, Can also be very nice to adults, but he lacked getting his butt wooped growing up, and he is very jealous toward me and my sister, who is even younger. If he doesnt get it, he cries and keeps begging. If i did that, i got wooped. Now if i want something and I dont get it, I say "Ok, maybe later?" and if still no, I dont bug them anymore.

My opinion is that it's not violence, but a way to teach kids growing up about how to act when they get older. Even at my brothers age, I didnt pout and cry. I did the same I do now. Ask, then a maybe later, then no more bugging from me.

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DudeMan

sorry and no disrespect to you ar your parents but they obviously lack the skill to disapline without violence, and by the sounds of it are letting your little brother win in a battle of wills.

you say you are a better person because you are spanked but what credable orturnative do you have for comparison. you have you, someone who was spanked and now because of the fear of being spanked learnt to do things a certain way. and then built respect.

that was the chain of events, you do wrong, and get spanked, you fear another spanking and therefore you dont do whjat it was that was considered wrong. but it doesnt make you respect, the respect came when you saw what nice people your parents were when they didnt spank.

in my opinion tat is the wrong way to go about it, it teaches fear before respect, and that isnt healthy, now what your parents could have done is explaned to you that you were doing wrong, now when i said earlier a tap on the arm for under 8 is ok, i mean that because under 8 well like talking to a brick wall, but nothing more than a tap and then a telling off and no ice cream that sort of thing... anyway, when you are like 12 or 13 there is no reason for spanking, because it doesnt help anything, you can at this age begin to show your chilldren how their actions have hurt you, and made you feel bad..

this is far more effective because at this developign point in thier lives where chilldren are learning social skills they learn to take their parents and therefore others feelings into account. this coupled with te banning of privalidges and the earning them back is an effective way of teaching a child right from wrong. it is the method used by the social services in this country and enforced by foster carers around the country, i have seen the exact method used on well about 20 chilldren and about 15 teenagers... and also myslef and my brother included. it has served them and me and serves thousands around my country if not millions i dont know how many people are in care or if its used in the same way in the states.

but my point now and my point overall is if there is an alternative to violence and creating the fear before respect then it must be the first option and considering i have rarely seen it fail accept in the most extreme case ( ortistic boy... not his fault or the carers, he needed adition psychatric help) then there is no need for violence at all.

as a baby there isnt anything better than a tap on the arm and a frown to show wrong... but as a maturng adult from the ages 10 -18 spanking aor any violence at all is out of the question it isnt needed and so it should not be used.

Wolfie

Have to earn the kid's respect? What about paying for their upbringing? Providing for them? Giving them a safe but fun childhood? Being there when they were young and sick? Giving up their free time to be with their child?

The problem is not that parents have not earned the right to be respected, the problem is kids don't respect what the parents have done for them in their short live times....

Sniper

i didnt read it all yet, but Fear before Respect? lol.. I respected them because they had more power. I didnt fear them at all, because I could have run, but I never did. I knew i did wrong, and i respected them so i didnt run. I went TO them. They lack no skills really.. They can look at me and I wont do it. Spanking was much more effective back then.

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HairyNevus

Its true, Wolfie, all that should make anyone feel grateful and respectful towards their parents. The sad truth: that isn't always how it is. If you let them run free they won't get taught respect or gratitude.

Dudeman, your way of discipline has drawbacks, too. What will these kids do/think when their parents keep taking stuff away? Learn their lesson? Maybe, but possibly they will just devise more ways to get around it and keep being more mischievous. And if you people believe that something like Marijuana leads to other bad things (though it doesn't) then just imagine what a mischievous son of yours will get into.

I have proof of this, my experience at the Park's daycare center. There I was a little turd for the ages, the ring leader of basically a 5-8 year-old clique. Of course there I couldn't be even tapped and the most that would happen was privileges taken away. I tried not to do anything too bad because then my parents would be informed (uh-oh) but all we would do was find a rule to break and then break it again and again. Example: No one was allowed in the ball closet without permission. So, we would sneak in the closet, hide for up to an hour until someone came in and found us or....snack time. We came up with creative hiding places, learned to go only after a head count, and most importantly learned not to laugh when a staff member came in looking for a ball. And this is coming from kids who would have to answer to spankings etc. at the home.

It should also be mentioned that eventually the Staff there did make us do physical things (ex. going up against flat wall in sitting position with arms straight until we gave up - by then we were 10+) and got pretty creative. Oddly enough we fell right back in line.

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=DdogG=

unfortunately dudeman, you have seen probably only the negative side of family life. Where I live, children respect parents in general, parents discipline children, and crime is extremely rare. I'm sorry, but I see a correlation between discipline, respect, and adult behavior. there has been less than 50 murders in this county in the past 4 decades.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Sevier...Tennessee.html
64 violent crimes in the county in 2001, only one murder, and that was commited by a knox county resident visiting gatlinburg.

you think that the life you have seen is the only way things work, but I will tell you, there is an alternate upbringing. children do not generally disrespect thier parents here. their friends would beat the crap out of them. I know I hit my best friend when he told his mom to shut up. I floored him in his own living room, and then I appologized to his mom. he was mad for a few days and then thanked me for setting his straight.

I beleive you have not seen a household where the parents love, respect, and are involved in the child's life. In this scenario, the children and the parents are FRIENDS in the teenage years. There is generally no need for hitting at that age, but extreme enough circumstances will get a 6'0 teenager hit by a 5'nothing mom. and woe be to the kid that hits his mom, he better run away right then, cause he will get tore up by the other kids..... guaranteed.

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Sniper

DDogG couldnt have said it better myself. Well said pal

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jex

So most of you here believe that the only way to educate your children is through violence? In the times that you've chastised them was hitting them the only option? Or did you lack the will to seek another alternative?

Wolfie - what does paying for anything have to do with respect? Or bringing them up. Surely respect is earnt both ways and not a god-given right.

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DudeMan

you have no clue mate do you...

well ok make assumptions about me...

whatever pal ... when again was the last time you knew jack about me?

=DdogG=

ok, really, stop saying "violence." spanking your child is discipline. throwing them across the room is violence. no law enforcement agent would ever take action against a parent who spanks their child. they would do something to a parent who hit their child though. Back when this country was worth something, kids got whupped.... ask your grandparents how they got disciplined. then ask them if they love and respect THEIR parents. 100% of your answers will be the same... whupped and yes.
if you have read my posts, you would understand that it is not JUST the spanking, but the discussion that accompanies it. I think that you are stuck on the "anti-violence" debate, but even dudeman has agreed that a spanking at the right age is appropriate. no one here has said they condone bruises and bleeding as punishment (though sometimes we would all LOVE to do that...hehehe...) I respect your position of not spanking YOUR children, but MY children know no worse punishment than talking to dad for 10-15 minutes about what they did and why it was wrong, all the time knowing a spanking is over the horizon.... that 15 minutes is an eternity.

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jex

The point I am trying to make is that it is still violence. Hitting people, no matter how hard, is violence is it not? We've all grown up in a culture where we would rather hit our children rather than find other ways around the problem. I'm not saying that a smack is completely out of order but it depends on the circumstance. If a kid was about to touch a bare mains wire then you would be wise to slap his hand down. But if the kid was being naughty, surely there are other ways to chastise them?

With younger kids it requires more effort as they don't understand, older kids should know better and I agree with dude, hitting them when they're older isn't doing any good. But we live in a time, and have for ages, where we just automatically will hit them because, in a society led by apathy, it's the quickest way to deal with the problem.

As an example: My godson was being a little git to my god daughter once. He was about 6 and she was 3. He pushed her off the bed and she fell. He thought it was funny - that was until I put on my angry face and sent him to his room. I then made sure Chloe was ok and we played some games (my little pony or something, yuck lol). Anyway I got her laughing again and Aaron could hear it and he came out of his room - which I sent him back there again. I then went in there after a while and explained to him why he was staying put in his room and said he could come out when he apologised to us both.

After a while he came out and said he was sorry and then we all played games (my little pony v action man (or something) with jex the walking climbing frame). They were both laughing again, playing together and bonding well.

I've seen a lot of parents just smack their kids over things like that and send them to their rooms - only to let them out again because the kids start whining because they know if they whine, they get let out.

The technique I used, whilst more effort, I believe led to a better solution and no hitting was involved. Aaron understood why he was in trouble, what he had done and what could have happened in a worse case scenario. I don't see how a smack here would have helped.

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Jex

_Ender_

But what about the parents who dont? Should they still get the respect of their kids? Thats what I'm saying...

Wolfie

Think about it for a second. The parents are giving up a lot to provide for their kids fun, safety, education, etc...

Helping to pay for college, providing transportation to their after school activities, helping them do their homework, pushing them to try harder in school, being there to bail them out when they get in over their heads, providing a safe place for them to grow up....

Parents sacrifices for their kids? Free time, money that could have been spent on themselves, having to worry about the welfare of their kids, staying up late to care for a sick child, missing work because their kid is sick, etc.

The list goes on and on about what parent(s) provide their kids to make their lives better. Is it too much to ask for a kid to respect his parents for all the sacrifices they have made in their behalf?