Bush shows his class - Page 4

**IRS_Agent** · 04-09-2006, 07:22 PM

I think, to some degree, we need to look good to the rest of the world. Personally, I don't like Bush because he is the representation of "the free world", I think he should just be govonor of Texas. I have more specific reasons for not wanting him as a president but there are many which are for debate and I really hate arguing politics on forums, or anywhere.

Diceman · 04-09-2006, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Because I'm not that interested in making this point?

That's fair, but you're also not the only one making the assertion. No one else seems to be interested in making the case either, and that seems strange to me.

**Apophis** · 04-09-2006, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diceman

Apo asked quite rightly for some objective evidence on Azzman's position that allowing a dissenter to speak is the first classy thing that Bush has done. A good number of folks would call that position common knowledge, though that has been implicitly disallowed in this thread as a basis for argument.

My request for a source was rather different. A statement was made saying that it was a fact that Bush only allowed the guy to speak to make himself look good in front of a camera. That is clearly nothing more than a falsehood unless there is some mitigating evidence to prove his intent.

I'm not sure what you would use for a source for a witnessed event. I followed the presidential campaign quite closely and I too remember Kerry squelching those that did not agree with him or asked him tough questions. My only source for that would be my memory.

**Trooper** · 04-09-2006, 09:03 PM

Dice i mean no disrespect, We as americans probably follow our politics alot better then those who are not americans. I know exactly when Cing is talking about cause ive heard Kerry talk.

Diceman · 04-09-2006, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

I'm not sure what you would use for a source for a witnessed event. I followed the presidential campaign quite closely and I too remember Kerry squelching those that did not agree with him or asked him tough questions. My only source for that would be my memory.

I was thinking of perhaps a transcript, or maybe some news reports from reasonably credible sources.

Diceman · 04-09-2006, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trooper[SNPR]

Dice i mean no disrespect, We as americans probably follow our politics alot better then those who are not americans. I know exactly when Cing is talking about cause ive heard Kerry talk.

Maybe, but Fox broadcasts pretty clearly up here as well.

As an aside, in Canada, a discussion which seems to rise and fade but never resolve is a notion of "Canadian" identity. A lot of folks say that we are effectively Americans because there is so much media overlap between our countries. There's good evidence for that too. In terms of major news networks, we have the CBC, CTV and Global. We also receive all major american networks: Fox, NBC, CNN, CBS, ABC...did I miss any?

We have probably all major american news magazines, we can get radio feeds through satellite and cable. Lastly and obviously, the internet is available to all but the darkest holes on the planet by now, rendering moot pretty much any argument regarding availability of information.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this is a global village. Even in the icy cold north, I've got access to pretty much identical information as anybody else. Also, american politics is a pet hobby of mine. I pay a fair degree of attention to what goes on south of the border.

Now, all that aside, I will readily agree in a second that we live in different cultures. Bush ain't a popular guy north of the 49th. But I think that, even for the most discerning among us, what we hear from a politician, be it Bush or Kerry, has a lot more to do with what we already believe rather than what they are saying.

This isn't to say that we're all, or even mostly, idealogues. I'm just trying to acknowledge our own biases. We've all got 'em, they infect everything we say and do, and they are largely transparent to their owners. The challenge is identifying one's own bias, finding reasons to justify one's position, and being ready to admit when one is wrong.

That, as everyone reading this knows, can be a very sticky proposition.

Karkianman101 · 04-10-2006, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USN_Squid

Not in your name? The hacker quarterly? The CNN and WaPo links are broken. The Memory hole link does have some pictures which I guess are supposed to be shocking because there's barb wire in them, but they also state this was an old bus depot not a chemical warehouse or whatever you called it. But wait it was verified by a cabbie! Weak, very weak.

If it's all true are there any pending lawsuits? The ACLU would be all over this if there was a shred of truth to any of the abuses don't you think?

Those links are all 2 years old. I'm not surprised that some of the articles aren't in the same place. But if you really don't think that that happened, then go ahead and google Pier 57 and September 2004. I don't want to get into another heated debate, so I'm not about to start a campaign to try and prove a mass-arrest of peaceful protestors.

And Cingular, I'd expect a slightly more mature response than "LOL" from an admin.

Radooh · 04-10-2006, 12:48 AM

Holy crap; do you guys not see it?

Some guy speaks out against Bush in town hall and then Bush reacts very politely and respectully and then all of a sudden: IT'S ALL OVER HEADLINES.

Don't you see a connection?

I do

**Trooper** · 04-10-2006, 12:50 AM

nope....

**CingularDuality** · 04-10-2006, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karkianman101

And Cingular, I'd expect a slightly more mature response than "LOL" from an admin.

Could you post a link to the last time we discussed this instead of rehashing it? Sorry if I found it amusing that you want to rehash this one specific incident...

**Trooper** · 04-10-2006, 01:14 AM

I think when ever you enter this part of the forum any titles or stature people have in the forums goes out the window. There are certain people I do respect when they post because they have posted relevant truths before in this forum, and show their knowledge over and over again in posts like this.

**Wyzcrak** · 04-10-2006, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trooper[SNPR]

I think when ever you enter this part of the forum any titles or stature people have in the forums goes out the window.

Negative.

**CingularDuality** · 04-10-2006, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trooper[SNPR]

I think when ever you enter this part of the forum any titles or stature people have in the forums goes out the window. There are certain people I do respect when they post because they have posted relevant truths before in this forum, and show their knowledge over and over again in posts like this.

Oh, we could make a whole other discussion about this. But it comes down to this: I am a moderator with administrative duties in this forum. I also enjoy expressing my opinion here. I'm almost always able to keep those two roles seperate, and on the rare occasion when I question myself in this regard, I have other moderators and TG Officers that I can ask for guidance.

So, while I'll certainly follow the rules of this forum, I'll not keep my opinion to myself, either.

And if you have any questions about whether I'm posting Cing's personal opinion, or I'm posting a TG Moderator's opinion, feel free to ask for clarification! I try to make sure that isn't necessary, though...

**Apophis** · 04-10-2006, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diceman

I was thinking of perhaps a transcript, or maybe some news reports from reasonably credible sources.

I didn't get it off of a transcript. I could go hunt it down FOR you, but I'm not inclined to do that. It was something witnessed first hand. I guess if my own first-hand experience isn't "credible" enough for you, then I've got little more to bother saying to you.

Your motive seems clear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diceman

But I think that, even for the most discerning among us, what we hear from a politician, be it Bush or Kerry, has a lot more to do with what we already believe rather than what they are saying.

This might be a problem with you, and it's certainly a problem with a lot of people. But personally, I care more about what someone is saying and what truth there is behind it rather than what i've already decided my opinion should be. I'm honestly not that much of a lemming for EITHER party.

I've made many posts about this in the past, but people should learn to think for themselves. There are far too many people who will believe ANYTHING that comes across the wire in blogs, TV or radio that supports their views and *NEVER* look for a source. It supports their view so it MUST be truthful. Those same people will take anything that supports any opposing view and demand sources for the most menial of things and then when sources ARE provided simply brush them off as unreliable or biased.

Karkianman101 · 04-10-2006, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Could you post a link to the last time we discussed this instead of rehashing it? Sorry if I found it amusing that you want to rehash this one specific incident...

This is the closest thing

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/sandbox...highlight=Pier

And you didn't enter that, so we've never discussed this incident. And the Washington Post article is now in Archives, and I don't think that this is worth buying an article for.
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingt...e+Conventional

The CNN article may have been altered or removed, since this isn't what I remember, but then again that was a year ago.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...sts/index.html

I also just googled it, and slapped myself for forgetting to check Wikipedia (which is a credible source, having just as many/few errors as Brittanica)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Re...otest_activity
(find: Police tactics and Pier 57 : Guantanamo on the Hudson)

And since Blogs are basically the only public source of personal accounts, I'd give them at least some semblance of credibility.

So if you want to have a discussion, go for it. But this isn't a rehash.

04-09-2006, 07:22 PM	#46 (permalink)
IRS_Agent Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Wisconsin Age: 17 Posts: 416	Re: Bush shows his class I think, to some degree, we need to look good to the rest of the world. Personally, I don't like Bush because he is the representation of "the free world", I think he should just be govonor of Texas. I have more specific reasons for not wanting him as a president but there are many which are for debate and I really hate arguing politics on forums, or anywhere. __________________ The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving. I #83 of 213 things you cannot do in the army. 83. Must not start any SITREP (Situation Report) with "I recently had an experience I just had to write you about...."

04-09-2006, 09:03 PM	#49 (permalink)
Trooper Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my wifes house......if she says i can Age: 25 Posts: 8,894	Re: Bush shows his class Dice i mean no disrespect, We as americans probably follow our politics alot better then those who are not americans. I know exactly when Cing is talking about cause ive heard Kerry talk. __________________ that sounds like a good idea trooper. -Vulcan

04-10-2006, 12:48 AM	#53 (permalink)
Radooh Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oceanside, CA Age: 18 Posts: 113	Re: Bush shows his class Holy crap; do you guys not see it? Some guy speaks out against Bush in town hall and then Bush reacts very politely and respectully and then all of a sudden: IT'S ALL OVER HEADLINES. Don't you see a connection? I do

04-10-2006, 12:50 AM	#54 (permalink)
Trooper Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my wifes house......if she says i can Age: 25 Posts: 8,894	Re: Bush shows his class nope.... __________________ that sounds like a good idea trooper. -Vulcan

04-10-2006, 01:14 AM	#56 (permalink)
Trooper Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my wifes house......if she says i can Age: 25 Posts: 8,894	Re: Bush shows his class I think when ever you enter this part of the forum any titles or stature people have in the forums goes out the window. There are certain people I do respect when they post because they have posted relevant truths before in this forum, and show their knowledge over and over again in posts like this. __________________ that sounds like a good idea trooper. -Vulcan

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