Tossing Myself into the Fire - Page 3

**Rincewind** · 04-20-2006, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xTYBALTx

I imagine Mohammad's followers wrote about his exploits, including a mid-air flight across Arabia, pretty soon after his death, as he died in a much more modern time (800 years or so after Jesus's death).

Much of the Koran was dictated to Mohammads followers by Mohammed. It's has a very, very different authorial history than the Bible. The two don't even compare in that sense.

xTYBALTx · 04-20-2006, 06:32 PM

Isn't that kinda what I was saying?

TychoCelchuuu · 04-20-2006, 11:14 PM

It's a good thing Jesus preached forgiveness, because otherwise I'd be like, screwed.

**Trooper** · 04-20-2006, 11:18 PM

yeah you should probably actually read why and how to get forgiveness, cause other wise you are still screwd

**Pokerface** · 04-20-2006, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TychoCelchuuu

It's a good thing Jesus preached forgiveness, because otherwise I'd be like, screwed.

I don't believe they modded in a zipline for Jesus before fixing the IFF issues. I mean... some real bungholes got into heaven because of that!

TychoCelchuuu · 04-20-2006, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trooper[SNPR]

yeah you should probably actually read why and how to get forgiveness, cause other wise you are still screwd

If I don't read it, you can't ding me for it! Ignorance of the law doesn't fly as a legal defense but maybe it will keep my soul out of everlasting torment.

**leejo** · 04-20-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

some real bungholes got into heaven because of that!

You say that like it's a bad thing. Some of us are banking on sweet sweet mercy.

Diceman · 04-21-2006, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TychoCelchuuu

I think this makes it clear which kit Jesus plays.

For further discussion: which kits do Mohammed, the Buddha and Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva play, and why?

Drizzid · 04-21-2006, 02:03 AM

I haven't read all the posts within the thread but one thing strikes me as "interesting" is the fact that the originator of this thread has not replied to anything within this thread since starting it. Seems to me there might be ulterior motives involved in this thread?

I'm not someone to argue religion since I have no education in this matter but, it does seem strange that the originator of such a vague topic, wording it the way he worded it, that he hasn't contributed to it since starting it. Hmmmm

**Apophis** · 04-21-2006, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFeniX

Yes, in fact (no pun intended) scientists don't even consider Newton's Laws of Gravity "fact." It's still a theory. One that fits best with the evidence provided. So it's the best logical answer.

EDIT: I should add, people should differentiate better between "fact" and "theories," but I think we're splitting hairs with someone saying it's a "fact that Jesus didn't rise from his grave," if the opposite end people say "it's a fact Jesus DID rise from his grave."

Doesn't the word "believe" work well here?

I believe that Jesus rose from his grave.
I do not beleive that Jesus rose from his grave.

We WOULD be splitting hairs *IF* your above scenario was the case. Once again. You're building a different argument in order to make a statement not directly associated with the original posters claims at having "facts" regarding Jesus rising from the grave.

ScratchMonkey · 04-21-2006, 09:36 AM

I've got this sitting on my "DVD's to watch" pile:

http://www.thegodmovie.com/dvd.php

(I'm still fighting my way through the season's TV collected on TiVo. Right now I'm doing a 24 marathon.)

Diceman · 04-21-2006, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

Doesn't the word "believe" work well here?

I believe that Jesus rose from his grave.
I do not beleive that Jesus rose from his grave.

We WOULD be splitting hairs *IF* your above scenario was the case. Once again. You're building a different argument in order to make a statement not directly associated with the original posters claims at having "facts" regarding Jesus rising from the grave.

Ultimately, "facts" (which, I believe can be considered knowledge in the absolute sense) do not exist. Everything is perception, everything is relative.

This would include all sensory experience, all memory, even mathematics and logic. To elaborate on this, presume that mathematics do not exist, and that we only believe that we know it (to exist) because everything we have applied our mathematical structures to results in logic consistency and coherency. Furthermore, imagine that there is really a whole world of conceptual inconsistencies just beyond my ability to understand them - not because I'm a dullard (although I may be), but because my brain simply isn't wired to allow for the full grandeur of reality. If this were the case, then mathematics wouldn't actually exist, it would only appear to exist because I am not capable of comprehending the paradoxes beyond.

I would think it fair to say that, in this case, we cannot say that we "know" mathematics. Similar thought experiments can be performed to assign doubt to every concept, except one: Descartes' Cogito Ergo Sum.

But this isn't terribly helpful for using language to carry out our day-to-day affairs. There are concepts with which I connect enough certainty that I claim to know it. For example, arithmetic. I would like to say something stronger than that I simply "believe" in arithmetic. Furthermore, most people will be happy with attributing the characteristic of knowledge to the relationship which relates arithmetic to me. But we must bear in mind that we are really being more generous than we should, because people can't know anything outside themselves. Without the ability to say that one knows something and the other doesn't, we must realize that we are all arguing shades of grey.

The last problem I'll note here is that, when arguing shades of grey, you can never be sure if you're arguing for the same thing, even if you're using the same words. I guess it's just one more thing that we cannot know. In a purely philosophical sense (and I can't see where a discussion of knowledge can go besides philosophy), none of us have anything but belief.

**Apophis** · 04-21-2006, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diceman

Ultimately, "facts" (which, I believe can be considered knowledge in the absolute sense) do not exist. Everything is perception, everything in relative.

I don't think the original poster made his claim in such an abstract sense. He claims to know for a fact that something didn't occur.

**Wyzcrak** · 04-21-2006, 12:26 PM

The original poster? That sounds so cold and distant. The guy's got a name.

Diceman · 04-21-2006, 12:29 PM

I believe that you're right. On the other hand, the above line of reasoning indicates to me that it doesn't really matter what sense he intended the words, because we know (or do we?) that his words can never be taken more strongly than "I really believe it to be the case that..."

Really, my reply is intended more as a response to your line of questioning than the original poster (Edit: AKA Buck Fush). I figure that if we are going to spend time deliberating on whether "this" is a fact or "that" is a fact, we should first talk about the nature of facts.

04-20-2006, 06:32 PM	#32 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,919	Re: Tossing Myself into the Fire Isn't that kinda what I was saying? __________________ A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

04-20-2006, 11:14 PM	#33 (permalink)
TychoCelchuuu Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Age: 19 Posts: 1,776	Re: Tossing Myself into the Fire It's a good thing Jesus preached forgiveness, because otherwise I'd be like, screwed. __________________ \|TG-Irr\|TychoCelchuuu

04-20-2006, 11:18 PM	#34 (permalink)
Trooper Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my wifes house......if she says i can Age: 25 Posts: 8,894	Re: Tossing Myself into the Fire yeah you should probably actually read why and how to get forgiveness, cause other wise you are still screwd __________________ that sounds like a good idea trooper. -Vulcan

04-21-2006, 02:03 AM	#39 (permalink)
Drizzid Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Glendale, AZ Age: 37 Posts: 2,984	Re: Tossing Myself into the Fire I haven't read all the posts within the thread but one thing strikes me as "interesting" is the fact that the originator of this thread has not replied to anything within this thread since starting it. Seems to me there might be ulterior motives involved in this thread? I'm not someone to argue religion since I have no education in this matter but, it does seem strange that the originator of such a vague topic, wording it the way he worded it, that he hasn't contributed to it since starting it. Hmmmm __________________

04-21-2006, 09:36 AM	#41 (permalink)
ScratchMonkey Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Pablo, California Posts: 4,565	Re: Tossing Myself into the Fire I've got this sitting on my "DVD's to watch" pile: http://www.thegodmovie.com/dvd.php (I'm still fighting my way through the season's TV collected on TiVo. Right now I'm doing a 24 marathon.) __________________

04-21-2006, 12:26 PM	#44 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: Tossing Myself into the Fire The original poster? That sounds so cold and distant. The guy's got a name. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

04-21-2006, 12:29 PM	#45 (permalink)
Diceman Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Yellowknife, NT Age: 30 Posts: 986	Re: Tossing Myself into the Fire I believe that you're right. On the other hand, the above line of reasoning indicates to me that it doesn't really matter what sense he intended the words, because we know (or do we?) that his words can never be taken more strongly than "I really believe it to be the case that..." Really, my reply is intended more as a response to your line of questioning than the original poster (Edit: AKA Buck Fush). I figure that if we are going to spend time deliberating on whether "this" is a fact or "that" is a fact, we should first talk about the nature of facts. __________________ [drill][medic][conduct][tg-c1][tpf-c1] [ma-c2][taw-c1] Principles of good Sandbox Etiquette: Assume good faith - Be polite, please! - Work toward agreement. - Argue facts, not personalities. - Concede a point when you have no response to it, or admit when you disagree based on intuition or taste. - Be civil. - Be prepared to apologize. In animated discussions, we often say things we later wish we hadn't. Say so. - Forgive and forget. - Recognize your own biases and keep them in check. - Give praise when due. Treat others as you would have them treat you

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