Beatnik

Just saw this, a typical news piece pulled from Yahoo News:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060512/...der_defense_11

I don't have a strong opinion on 'immigration reform' at all really. It doesn't really affect me at all, despite living 3 hours from the border. But is this a good use of our troops? Is there a significant 'threat' from Mexicans crossing the border (aside from the occasional pot bust)? Or is this more in the line of the 'gay marriage' non-issue? I really haven't paid much attention to the whole debate around immigration and the motives behind it, other than hearing of a couple outlandish proposals to deport 3 million illegal immigrants.

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aeroripper

I'm sure the border patrol along the texas border would appreciate the help, but it is always a touchy thing with active duty military doing domestic law enforcement (and illegal unless federalized by the president IIRC, civil war era stuff). As for national guard, isn't there already some 170 or so along other states southern borders helping out? Although that really isn't a lot.

What I am wondering is why doesn't the government give lots of money to the pre-existing border patrol agencies to beef up security and hire more help if its such a big issue? They've spent almost half a trillion dollars in wars but can't afford a few million to help out at home?

icky

Why not just take over Mexico?

Sorry, this is The Sandbox.

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aeroripper

Woah woah slow down there Tom Clancy.

Beatnik

I think we've been working on that in GRAW the past few weeks.

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leejo

That was my he-was-kidding-wasn't-he suggestion a few weeks ago. In the long run, I think it'll basically happen. Free trade erodes borders. That can be good and bad.

Santa

Meh, even if securing the border kept terrorists from getting in that way, im sure a terrorist thats well funded by his group will find a way in.

IceCold

There isn't a vault in the world that is foolproof, does that mean we should just leave our money laying around in the front yard instead of locking it up in a bank?

Seems like "leaving the door wide open" is kind of a silly argument to me.

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Beatnik

I think it's the whole 'securing our border' thing that's confusing me. Is terrorism the big threat that we're concerned with here, or is it illegal immigrants taking up resources? If terrorism is the argument, then why isn't the Canadian border included in these discussions?

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leejo

Good question! I think it's both issues, and maybe we have much more confidence in the Canadians' ability to secure their own "borders" since they're surrounded by us, the arctic, and huge oceans?

Beatnik

As opposed to islamic fundamentalists coming up thru Panama?

I'm not being provocative here - this issue really confounds me. Is there any record of terrorists hopping the Mexican border, or did they just take a flight in from say, any other country in the world?

It seems to (the admittedly uninformed) me that the argument of 'securing the border' to prevent terrorists coming in extremely weak at best. I can understand wanting to keep non-citizens off the taxpayers' expense for healthcare and whatnot, but asserting that terrorists come to America by hopping the border from Mexico just doesn't hold water. Has there been one case of this happening? And even if one terrorist did come in that way, does that justify sending up to 10,000 National Guardsmen down there to 'protect' it?

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CingularDuality

There have been plenty of instances of aliens from "special interest" countries (read: countries that produce terrorists) being smuggled into the US from Mexico. Whether or not they're actually terrorists is up in the air... I heard about a coyote that smuggled over a hundred Middle Eastern aliens into the US at a price of $8000 each (the going rate for a Mexican to be smuggled in is between $1000 and $2000). There has to be a reason the coyote charged or was offered that kind of money...

Well, we need to know who's coming into our country. Doesn't it bother you that you can't confidently say that you trust that our borders are secure, that no terrorists have simply walked across the border from Mexico or Canada? Wouldn't it be better for EVERYONE, if the only people that entered the US did so through a legal Port of Entry?

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TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

CingularDuality

It is. Just because the mainstream media is trying to portray this issue as a matter of racist hatemongering doesn't mean that's what is actually being considered by our government...

See if you can find a story on how many Border Patrol Agents have been moved to our Northern border in the last five years...

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ScratchMonkey

About this "we need to know who's coming into our country": We don't check passports at city or state borders. Why should I in California trust someone from Oregon? Why should I in my home town trust someone from the next city over (which is more crime-riddled)?

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Beatnik

Thanks for the replies Cing - I knew you would be more informed about the whole situation.

That's kind of what I was getting at, and I'm somewhat glad to hear that at least Canada is also included in the discussion, instead of just focusing on the 'brown people' down South. I've definitely not heard of high profile people being smuggled in across the border, but I've heard next to nothing on the whole issue.

Yes I do think that ideally we'd have a system where we knew who exactly was coming into the country. And I know that Texas' governor Perry has expressed relief at getting more manpower. But given that we're stretched thin in Iraq with Stop Loss and whatnot, is militarizing the border(s) an appropriate use of these relatively scarce resources (i.e. troops)?

And can I end another post in this thread with a question?

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