Trooper

i beleive the intoxication, in the USA the legal drinking age is 21.

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

TheFeniX

An 18-year-old can be left in charge of a group of minors. What the cop would then do if he cared is talk to a the home-owner or the closest thing (the kid living there). You can be left home alone at the age of 16 (I think, in Texas at least). The cops would probably move onto contacting the home owner themselves and let them decide. It's a gray area.

You can be drunk in your own home at the age of 18 (and lower, but you're skirting another gray area. The cop could decide you're unfit to care for the home). 21 is merely the age in which you can purchase alcohol and consume it on your own (in Texas, you can drink with your parents at almost any age, some businesses will deny that ability, but it is legal).

That said, I can be stone wasted in my front yard at the age of 18, and a cop cannot take me to jail for it (unless I'm doing something that IS illegal like being loud at 2am, etc).

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Rincewind

Actually, the ACLU didn't produce the video. Although, their ex CEO narrated it.

How did you know the difference between the 17 yo and the 18 yo? Just curious.

This is true. This is true for MOST of our population.

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Required Reading for all TG sandboxers

Magnum50

I asked... first Q. "Is the home owner home"... "No, my dad owns the place"... "is there any adult here?", "No"... "so how old are you?", "17"... "OK... you appear to be highly intoxicated, have you been drinking or doing any drugs here tonight?", "NO"... "OK, can I come in?", "Hell NO", (red flag)... "OK, I understand you don't want me in but due to your intoxication and the lack of adult supervision... I am obligated to check out the situation here, due to the complaints received." "**** you, you can't come in here!", "Yes I can, please step aside"... and then it's on....

thats pretty much how it happended... another tip for my TG brothers... MOST modern police departments have cameras in there cars, and even thou NOT on video the conversation was recorded... slamm dunk case... Cops who do the right thing LOVE these cameras... we got the new digital ones... if someone runs a red light right in front of us, we hit record and it captures up to 90 seconds prior to hitting record... a cop blessing in court... get in a crash, the camera automatically records up to 90 seconds prior... SWEET!

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Magnum
www.gettacticaldammit.com

leejo

Oh that is badass Magnum.

Incidentally, I have mentioned in other threads how much I love my car. Here's another reason why:

Since 12/31/05 when I bought the car, I have been pulled twice. Each time I was going over 20mph over the limit. Both times I've handed the officer my license, answered a few quick questions, and he's handed my license back to me and told me to slow it down. Amazing. I love my magic car!!!

Oh, and the first time a search would not have been super.

leejo

Also incidentally:

"Brenda tells me you have enough colon fixation for the three of us."

Best public service announcement line ever.

xTYBALTx

Really? Don't get me wrong, that's a fantastic route to take, but I've always found screaming "I KNOW THE MAYOR!!!! I'LL GET YOU FIRED!!!!!" coupled with expletives far more effective.

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A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

leejo

"SNIIIIIFFFFF

Smells Fresh."

Classic.

And if I've heard this once I've heard it a thousand times:

"Whoa whoa hey. I don't think so fool. If you're going to hang out here, you need to keep it down for the rest of the night"

xTYBALTx

That's one thing I love Spain, where people of all ages drink freely on the streets until 3am without fear of being bothered. It's a very relaxing atmosphere. Not that I am under 21 anymore, but hell even I can't drink on the streets in the USA.


@ Rincewind - Very funny video. Entertaining. But I still think the best idea is to be nice and consent to small things (like speeding). If a cop wanted to look inside my car, I'd have a tough time telling him "no" even if there weren't anything in there (and I don't do drugs nor drive around with firearms, so I never do). Maybe I'll try it sometime and see where it goes.

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A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

Rincewind

Yeah I laughed at my desk when I saw that.

@tybalt Yeah I don't disagree. I just thought it was up there with super troopers But what makes it, is that it is serious.

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No matter how far a wizard goes, he will always come back for his hat. --T. Pratchett

<---- You know you're getting old when you rely on your forum meta-data to remind you how old you are.

Required Reading for all TG sandboxers

Spartan25

This one has gotten me out of two speeding tickets (10+).

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99. A smiley face is not used to mark a minefield.
100. Claymore mines are not filled with yummy candy, and it is wrong to tell new soldiers that they are.
101. I am not allowed to mount a bayonet on a crew-served weapon.

JMJ

This is what we call here "an exigent circumstance". That child's life is potentially in danger and we are obligated to do something about it. I wouldn't hesitate to enter the home at that point. Any court (even our criminal loving courts here in MA, don't even get me started) would say what we did was right.

Wow, one thing that MA is better in? I'm shocked! Our rule here is "the time of the traffic stop shall be whatever is reasonable for the officer to complete the stop." If that's 10 or 30 minutes, that's fine as long as it's justified. We never search cars for the sake of searching cars, there's no point and it usually ends up nowhere. However, if we smell an "alcoholic beverage" or weed, then we will take you out of the car, do a pat frisk, and it will go from there. The law here states that even though I smell weed, it does not give me the right to search your car. If I search you and find only a joint, the courts have ruled that that is not enough for us to search the car further that what is in our plain view. If you have 4 bags on you, then we might have probable cause to search further. I wouldn't even have to worry about that anyway. If you had 4 bags of weed, you're going to jail for possession with intent to distribute and your car is being towed. Part of our SOP's is to do an inventory search of a car when we tow it. If you are hiding anything I'm going to find it now and it's perfectly legal.

Most cases rarely ever get to this and if you are cool and honest with the officer you're not going to have any problem and may very well get out of the ticket.

True story (heard from another cop): A guy blows through a stop sign in a rural area, there's no one around. There's a cop there who sees it and pulls the guy over. Cop says "Did you see that stop sign that you blew right through?" The guy answers back "Yes, but I didn't see you " The cop found the humor in his truth and let him off with a warning. And no, I'm not saying to go out and try this

CingularDuality

Right. I was willing to endure some trouble to make my point when I did that at Best Buy. If you're willing to endure a bit of hassle to stand up for your rights on principle only, then go for it. I'm just saying that, in most cases, everyone involved will be happier if the cops can just check what they want to check and let you be on your merry way.

Another thing everyone here should learn about is the difference between "reasonable suspicion" and "probable cause". These are legal terms and they are almost always what limits a cop's authority to take action. For instance, PC is needed to arrest you or to get a search warrant. RS is needed to pull you over on the road or to frisk you. The next legal concept that you must be aware of is "totality of circumstances". In order to articulate RS, the officer can take into account everything that he knows, not just what you know.

So, if a Leejo gets pulled over while wearing business attire at 1pm in his black BMW with dealer's plates on the highway for speeding, he's not going to get frisked for weapons. There's nothing to be suspicious of...

If Leejo gets pulled over for driving without his lights on while dressed in black BDU pants, a black sweatshirt and a black wool cap at 1am in his black BMW with dealer's plates in an area that has been plagued by burglaries the last 4 days, he will probably be frisked and detained for a while. The officer will try to gain consent to search the car. If any burglary tools are in plain view, or are found during a consented search, then that would probably tip the scales from mere RS over to having actual PC to make an arrest. No, there's nothing illegal about wearing all black. Nothing illegal about having expensive cars with dealer's plates. Nothing illegal about having crowbars, lock picks, screwdrivers, glass cutters and bolt cutters in your car. Nothing illegal about driving through a nice part of town at 1 in the morning. But you put all of those together and you see that the totality of the circumstances would definitely make any reasonable person suspicious. Combine it with the fact that there have been a few burglaries in that specific area and you might have probable cause to arrest. Make sense?

Now, how well an officer can articulate the situation that causes him to have reasonable suspicion dictates just how much authority he has. A bulge in a pocket is instant RS for a frisk, regardless of anything else. A heavy jacket might be cause for RS in the summer, but not in the winter. You've got to think about what the officer can say that a judge/jury will agree would make a reasonable person suspicious.

Oh, yeah, and like Magnum said, cops are trained in interviewing techniques. Your responses, facial expressions, eye movements, body language and other things that you don't think about will all contribute to that officer's "totality of circumstances". In other words, if you look like your lying, that helps build a case for RS.

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CingularDuality

Careful there. The US Supreme Court just ruled that detaining someone solely for the purpose of waiting for, for example, a drug dog is NOT reasonable. (First thing I thought of was trying to get the suspect to ask for your Sgt. Then you could always say that he asked to talk to your supervisor and THAT is what you were waiting for...)

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leejo

Well I AM feeling a little frisky.