Busted: Protect your rights in police encounters... - Page 3

**CingularDuality** · 06-07-2006, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

Well I AM feeling a little frisky.

Down boy.

Oh, and I got your message. Just didn't have the time to call you back until about 1:30 this morning and I figured you wouldn't appreciate that.

**leejo** · 06-07-2006, 03:16 PM

Correctamundo.

I saw a truck with the license plate "NSFW" and gave Cing a ring before I forgot forever, folks.

**CingularDuality** · 06-07-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

I saw a truck with the license plate "NSFW" and gave Cing a ring before I forgot forever, folks.

You called the wrong person to remember something. I suffer terribly from CRS syndrome...

Pickle · 06-07-2006, 03:49 PM

Cing and Magnum both have fantastic advice. And for both of them I have a website to visit.

http://www.copwatch.com.

The forums pissed me off to no end!

**TheFeniX** · 06-07-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Right. I was willing to endure some trouble to make my point when I did that at Best Buy. If you're willing to endure a bit of hassle to stand up for your rights on principle only, then go for it. I'm just saying that, in most cases, everyone involved will be happier if the cops can just check what they want to check and let you be on your merry way.

I wouldn't be.

Quote:

Another thing everyone here should learn about is the difference between "reasonable suspicion" and "probable cause".::snip::

I'm a white male who tends to dress what I would define as "respectable." I'm not always decked out in my nice boots or dress shirt, but even on my off days: I've got a pair of jeans and a T-shirt, which aren't wrapped around my ankles. I don't dress "thugged out" at any point in time. My demeanor is always at ease with cops. I don't hassle them if they don't hassle me.

So, I'm forced to look at the situation like "WHY would he want to search me." I've run into a lot of cops in the past who just don't like kids. The older I get, the less this applies to me, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I'm not a criminal, I don't act like one, an officer has no reason to search my car. If I feel like he has one, then I would allow it on my own volition. But if I don't feel a reason why an officer would want to search my car (and I WILL ask him for a reason), then he's going to have to do it without my permission.

The real question would be: is it worth HIS time. Not mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Careful there. The US Supreme Court just ruled that detaining someone solely for the purpose of waiting for, for example, a drug dog is NOT reasonable. (First thing I thought of was trying to get the suspect to ask for your Sgt. Then you could always say that he asked to talk to your supervisor and THAT is what you were waiting for...)

Really? I'm filling that one in "the vault." Good info to have.

JMJ · 06-07-2006, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickle

Cing and Magnum both have fantastic advice. And for both of them I have a website to visit.

http://www.copwatch.com.

The forums pissed me off to no end!

Wow, I didn't even have to get to the forums to get extremely pissed off. I hope I never have to help anyone wearing any "copwatch" clothing when I'm on duty. The "ask a cop" forum made me want to go postal!

**leejo** · 06-07-2006, 07:39 PM

Ha I just skimmed it before and decided it was a joke, but you've inspired me JMJ.

Quote:

yes,ive got a question for any cops out there that call themselves good.no1, why is it that the only thing that cops out there care about is what the supreme court says about something? the cops way way back in the earlier years cared about the bill of rights and the constitution--the cops now act like the constitution is nothin but a comic book that some aliens from outer space made thats encrypted and ONLY the supreme court can understand.

You keep using that word "supreme". I do not think it means what you think it means.

Pickle · 06-07-2006, 07:51 PM

I assure you it is no joke. The people on that site genuinely hate us. I have decided it is hate group. Just a different type of hate group.

**leejo** · 06-07-2006, 07:53 PM

Yeah I didn't mean that they don't consider themselves serious, I meant that their position is not worthy of serious consideration. Their posters tell the full story, I think.

**Rincewind** · 06-07-2006, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickle

Cing and Magnum both have fantastic advice. And for both of them I have a website to visit.

http://www.copwatch.com.

The forums pissed me off to no end!

Holy smokes that place is bad. I feel sorry for the LEO's that participate

Terror · 06-08-2006, 12:41 AM

Honestly I believe people are worried about corrupt officers because of certain movies, shows, and particularly the news reported on papers and television. The reason why there is a big stink about "bad cops" is because only the officers NOT doing their job are constantly mistaken to be numerous in all law enforcement departments.

Pickle · 06-08-2006, 01:47 AM

I can't stand the show, "The Shield". I like Michael Chiklis the actor but I can't stand that bad cops are positively portrayed.

**CingularDuality** · 06-08-2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFeniX

I'm a white male who tends to dress what I would define as "respectable." I'm not always decked out in my nice boots or dress shirt, but even on my off days: I've got a pair of jeans and a T-shirt, which aren't wrapped around my ankles. I don't dress "thugged out" at any point in time. My demeanor is always at ease with cops. I don't hassle them if they don't hassle me.

So, I'm forced to look at the situation like "WHY would he want to search me." I've run into a lot of cops in the past who just don't like kids. The older I get, the less this applies to me, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I'm not a criminal, I don't act like one, an officer has no reason to search my car. If I feel like he has one, then I would allow it on my own volition. But if I don't feel a reason why an officer would want to search my car (and I WILL ask him for a reason), then he's going to have to do it without my permission.

Heh, Fenix, you think criminals only dress crappy? No, every day, cops catch criminals that dress just like you. Your age, your clothing, your car, your neighborhood, they're all just additional things to consider. None of them are reason enough for a cop to want to search you. Some of those things might become a stronger consideration in certain circumstances. Perhaps they just took a call and the little old lady said that it was a young guy in a dress shirt and nice boots, definitely not a "thug", that just raped her. Oh, and she said that the young guy was carrying a green backpack that he threw in the trunk of his car. Is it really unreasonable for the cops to then ask every "young guy with nice boots" if they can see in the trunk if they stop you in that neighborhood?

You have to remember that it's not all about YOU (although your rights are!), and you need to consider that when deciding whether to cooperate or not.

**CingularDuality** · 06-08-2006, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFeniX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cing

Careful there. The US Supreme Court just ruled that detaining someone solely for the purpose of waiting for, for example, a drug dog is NOT reasonable. (First thing I thought of was trying to get the suspect to ask for your Sgt. Then you could always say that he asked to talk to your supervisor and THAT is what you were waiting for...)

Really? I'm filling that one in "the vault." Good info to have.

http://www.policek9.com/html/drugdog.html

Quote:

Stops for traffic violations may lead to a sniff conducted during "free time." Just as a sniff of luggage in a public place is not a Fourth Amendment search, the sniff of the exterior of a vehicle lawfully detained is not a search. In Romo v. Champion, the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that "when the odor of narcotics escapes from the interior of a vehicle, society does not recognize a reasonable privacy interest in the public airspace containing the incriminating odor . . . . Where government officials have lawfully detained a vehicle, a dog's sniff is not a search within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment." Thus, as long as the vehicle is not detained beyond the time necessary to accomplish the purpose of the traffic stop, whether it be to issue a citation, await for a licensed driver, or simply give a warning, the exterior of the vehicle is free game for a sniff. The Tenth Circuit has held that no consent is required for a canine sniff, even absent any reasonable suspicion, if the vehicle is otherwise lawfully detained. United States v. Morales-Zamora. You may even ask the occupants to get out of the vehicle while the sniff is conducted.

Detention of the vehicle beyond this brief time needed to issue a citation or warning requires reasonable suspicion of illegal activity. "Once the driver has produced a valid license and proof that he is entitled to operate the car, he must be allowed to proceed on his way, without being subject to delay by police for further questioning." United States v. Walker. "Any further detention for questioning [not for issuing a citation] is beyond the scope of the Terry stop and therefore is illegal unless the officer has a reasonable suspicion of unlawful activity." United States v. Dewitt.

**TheFeniX** · 06-08-2006, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Heh, Fenix, you think criminals only dress crappy? No, every day, cops catch criminals that dress just like you. Your age, your clothing, your car, your neighborhood, they're all just additional things to consider. None of them are reason enough for a cop to want to search you.

Hence why it wasn't my only comment.

Quote:

Some of those things might become a stronger consideration in certain circumstances. Perhaps they just took a call and the little old lady said that it was a young guy in a dress shirt and nice boots, definitely not a "thug", that just raped her. Oh, and she said that the young guy was carrying a green backpack that he threw in the trunk of his car. Is it really unreasonable for the cops to then ask every "young guy with nice boots" if they can see in the trunk if they stop you in that neighborhood?

The two times an officer has asked to search my belongings: he didn't give me a reason other than "I'd like to.." That's not good enough for me. The officer can plead his case to ME if he feels so inclined. But I am not about to plead my case on why I DON'T want to be searched.

Further, this is a red herring. If the cop is investigating a rape, he's not going to start in on me AFTER I've been pulled over for speeding. So, in this instance: I'm stopped or pulled over without having committed any form of crime (unless he makes one up). And you can bet I'm going to be unbelievably pissed off being pulled over because I look like "a white guy with boots." How he'd see my boots in news to me.

Besides, my truck is about an inconspicuous as an abrams tank. You'd have to have an IQ of about -50 to not be able to indentify it with a passing glance. So, we're back to square one.

Quote:

You have to remember that it's not all about YOU (although your rights are!), and you need to consider that when deciding whether to cooperate or not.

I don't consider denying an officer the ability to search my vehicle/home without cause "uncooperative."

06-07-2006, 03:16 PM	#32 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: Busted: Protect your rights in police encounters... Correctamundo. I saw a truck with the license plate "NSFW" and gave Cing a ring before I forgot forever, folks.

06-07-2006, 03:49 PM	#34 (permalink)
Pickle Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Land of Fruit and Nuts! Age: 35 Posts: 1,281	Re: Busted: Protect your rights in police encounters... Cing and Magnum both have fantastic advice. And for both of them I have a website to visit. http://www.copwatch.com. The forums pissed me off to no end! __________________ "Umm Deputy these aren't my pants" - Common alarm cry of the North American Crackhead [tg-c1][ma-c1][defense]

06-07-2006, 07:51 PM	#38 (permalink)
Pickle Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Land of Fruit and Nuts! Age: 35 Posts: 1,281	Re: Busted: Protect your rights in police encounters... I assure you it is no joke. The people on that site genuinely hate us. I have decided it is hate group. Just a different type of hate group. __________________ "Umm Deputy these aren't my pants" - Common alarm cry of the North American Crackhead [tg-c1][ma-c1][defense]

06-07-2006, 07:53 PM	#39 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: Busted: Protect your rights in police encounters... Yeah I didn't mean that they don't consider themselves serious, I meant that their position is not worthy of serious consideration. Their posters tell the full story, I think.

06-08-2006, 12:41 AM	#41 (permalink)
Terror Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 37	Re: Busted: Protect your rights in police encounters... Honestly I believe people are worried about corrupt officers because of certain movies, shows, and particularly the news reported on papers and television. The reason why there is a big stink about "bad cops" is because only the officers NOT doing their job are constantly mistaken to be numerous in all law enforcement departments. __________________ Remember, remember the 5th of November.

06-08-2006, 01:47 AM	#42 (permalink)
Pickle Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Land of Fruit and Nuts! Age: 35 Posts: 1,281	Re: Busted: Protect your rights in police encounters... I can't stand the show, "The Shield". I like Michael Chiklis the actor but I can't stand that bad cops are positively portrayed. __________________ "Umm Deputy these aren't my pants" - Common alarm cry of the North American Crackhead [tg-c1][ma-c1][defense]

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