leejo

I think this is a very big deal. Personally, I've had a hunch that has turned into a feeling that is becoming a belief that this war is basically over and that it was won on the day al-Jaafiri stepped aside and al-Maliki formed his government. Maliki's actions to clear out Basra and now this helps secure his position, add to his policital power, and affirm to the Iraqi people that he can execute.

The key strategic fight left is about perception. I think we can still lose that one, but in terms of doing what we set out to do, that's basically a done deal.

I may be flat out wrong, but it's a sense I have. We'll see. In any case, today is a good day for the people of Iraq and for us.

USN_Squid

This CNN article has a couple links to videos. The third paragraph has a link to the bombing run video which shows an F-16 laser painting the target. It looks like he's "buddy lasing" or painting it for another F-16 to drop the bombs, but I'm not positive.

Another video worth watching is the Iraqi press conference located on the right side bar "Applause Breaks Out After Announcement".


http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/me...aq.al.zarqawi/

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Trooper

guess it wasnt safe enough.

But one thing to think about is i bet it was iraqis that pointd the house and location out the forces in the area. The iraqis are sick of the crap others are doing in their country. Just like both sadamns sons, some guy got 25 million US dollars for showing US forces where they were, good for him. Iraqis showed us where Sadamn was hiding, got some good money out of that, good for them.

Iraqis can now do more for their country and help get us out.

Job well done

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

Faultline

Correct. Sunnis too.

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Beatnik

What exactly did we accomplish there that we set out to do? Find and destroy WMDs? Make Iraqis safer than when Saddam was in power? Make US soldiers safer? Make Americans safer? Improve US/Middle Eastern relations? Provide a model democracy that the rest of the middle east will follow?

Not to nitpick - it's obviously good the guy is dead. But is this some kind of 'mission accomplished' and a turning point in the ongoing quagmire? Is the slog going to now be any less long and hard? I hope so but I seriously doubt there will be a significant, practical change in anyone's safety over there.

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TG_Bubba

Do you hear something? BOOM. Silence.

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TheFatKidDeath

The most insightful statement I've seen on this thread. We are producing more terrorists in Iraq than we can kill. The invasion of Iraq is the greatest strategic error this country has ever seen. Thanks to the Bush Adminstration the world's greatest military force has now been fought to a stand still by 20,000 to 30,000 lighty armed insurgents whose most powerful weapon has been a roadside bomb. The US cannot even control the road from the Green Zone to the Airport. The whole invasion has been a diaster, militarily, diplomatically and economically. Let's not forget the death and wounding of thousands of our troops and even more Iraqis.

Zarqawi's terrorist network represented only a small fraction of the Iraqi insurgency, according to our own military estimates. Ironically, Al-Qadia had no presence in Iraq before the invasion, now, the whole country is one big terrorist training camp. The death of Zarqawi will not stop the bloodshed in Iraq, he will simply replaced by another terrorist.

carRamrod

For the life of me I can't remember the reason why the Bush administration didn't kill Zarqawi way back in June of 2002 when they knew his exact location and had the opportunity to kill him.

Hey! I just remembered - June of 2002 was when Bush Co. was obsessed with overthrowing Saddam and trying to convince the country he possessed WMD's. Too busy to kill real terrorists, I guess.

Detailed in a March 2004 NBC News report: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4431601

TheFatKidDeath

I wish all these questions were asked before the invasion. Unfortunately, most Americans were to wrapped up in the flag and jingoism to look at the long term consequences.

Trooper

so patriotism is to blame for the war we are in?

If we are gonna talk about terrorists that got a way...in 1994 Clinton had a chance at Bin Laden, but turned it down because he wasn't a threat. At the time Zarqawii wasn't threat to us, sadamn was, not any longer thanks to our Volunteer Military.

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

Zephyr

We only think this is a major accomplishment because we aren't given enough information to spell out the reality of what Iraq is actually like. Every single news network doesn't give us any combat footage when there is a suicide bombing, we get Iraqi's ambling around after a suicide bombing looking all, as the reporters always say in one iteration or another, "sad about how their country has come to this". The strategy everyone there uses is one of modified chaos, yet to the American people the government puts on this facade of having a stong grip and waging a war against a clear and defined enemy. Our grip is pathetic, our actions have been pathetic, and our press has been especially pathetic in failing to tell us the truth.

This death won't change anything, but it will be a nice conversation piece for those who want to say that the US is winning the war.

Nice to see him dead though. Pity it was done by precision bombing via information gathering, the last real "accomplishment" for our troops was stumbling upon Hussein...since then they just have been getting killed on a regular basis by IEDs. Our troops could be used so much more effectively, I'm not saying I know how but I just cannot see how the current "strategy" is working at all.
-Zephyr

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TheFatKidDeath

Patriotism is not to blame for the war we in, however blind Patriotsim is certainly a contributing factor - the "You are with us or against us" or simply "Support our Troops" which simply mean support our policies or you will be called disloyal. It's the definition of jingoism. That was a powerful tool used against those who did not support the invasion, and for those who still do.

Yes, Saddam Hussein, was a threat, so much of one that we gave him military arms and the techonlogy to produce chemical weapons during the 70's, 80's and 90's. He was so much of a threat that Donald Rumsfeld meet with the man two times to solidify realtions between him and the Regan Administration. This threat even killed 28 of our sailors when his airforce attacked the US Cole warship in the 90's without any reccuprosions from the US.

This threat during the 90's and 00's was simply a tin-pot dictator who had a rag tag army made up of conscripts, no airforce, no connection to Al-Qaida, (and ironically a secularist in a region of fundamentalists) and as it turns out no WMD.

Now I can see why we invaded Iraq, the man was a threat!

leejo

Beatnik, I think the strategic goals of the Iraq invasion were to overthrow the SH regime and remove the various threats it posed, establish a robust military presence in the region in order to influence neighboring states' policy more directly, and establish a functioning constitutional democracy that will serve as a moderating force in the region. An implicit strategic goal that has since developed is to demonstrate our ability and willingness to defeat a determined insurgency.

I think the insurgency is basically defeated and that the deal was done when this government was formed in late April.

I'm not even going to begin to get into a silly debate with folks who disagree. I may be flat wrong. We'll see.

TheFatKidDeath

I think the insurgency is basically defeated

[/quote]

On what bases do you make that statement?

With all due respect, a lack of debate has gotten us into this mess.

leejo

I make that statement on both 2nd and 3rd bases. When I had a hunch I was on first base. Now that it's a feeling/belief I'm sort of on 2nd and 3rd. If and when it becomes a verifiable fact, I'll do a little happy dance on home plate and taunt you for your lack of game.