Rampage

We dropped discussing the specifics of the film quite a ways back. Now it's more of a high-level discussion on whether we have any business having an opinion.

DudeMan

yes well clearly 5 pages of discussion was too much for jex to read, because had he read it he would have seen his "question" (which by the way is just argumentative and trying to disrupt a good debate) has been answered by people in their own ways,

many people have seen clippings from the film and many people have watched the film. if you had cared to read the discussion then you would have seen very valid points and knowledge of the content of the film, but it seems that you would rather just rag on everyone over having bought and seen the entire movie.

and if you want to make the point aint seen it so don talk about it, i bet you hjave never in your life been to israel, and i bet you have never spoken to 5 people living in occupied territory, so what gives you the right to have an opinion on that.

because you are entitled to your opinion thats why, and really although i cant stop you from posting comments designed to disrupt what was on topic and also going somewhere, i would ask you not to

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

DudeMan

ah huh and ahuhuh

well said, i ranted but the essience is there...lol

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

Rampage

Brevity is the soul...

jex

What are you babbling about? How many people have seen the film? Clips don't count. It'd be like reading a page from a book and then doing a report on it. Since the film isn't out over here yet no-one from the UK side has seen it. Judging by the amount of anti-moore sentiment here I'm betting very few people have watched the film who are commenting on it. By all means have a discussion on what you imagine the film to be but don't rubbish it before you've seen it.

As for disrupting you argument that's your own fault if you choose to read my posts. I'm not disrupting anything other than your argument which is based, once again, on what you imagine.

And no I have never been to Israel or palestine. I did know a guy from Israel who was in the IDF and he was sickened by the actions of his own people when it came to the palestinians. He then found christ, became a christian and was then thrown out by his family, friends and community because he wasn't a jew anymore. He then found his way here where he's pursuing a career in rap - nice fellow as it goes. But what does that have to do with having a point about what's going on over there?

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Jex

Zebra

There's no difference. Propaganda is propaganda. People actually did believe the stuff government put out at one time. People believe the crap Rush, Hannity, and the rest put out now, and there's no way it doesn't have an influence on elections. It wouldn't be very good propaganda if it didn't.

What distinction are you trying to draw? That it's okay for the government and right-wingers to put out propaganda, but it's an atrocity if left-wingers do?

Zebra

Bush's cronies have most of the Iraq contracts. Halliburton alone has billions in contracts. Moore's making chump change in comparison.

Are you serious? I could go on and on about pre-war statements that turned out to not be true ACCORDING TO OUR OWN GOVERNMENT. Read the news much? Maybe I should just give up now and let you enjoy the Kool Aid.

Zebra

I think if you continued down to the noun definition you'd find something like:

"Factual footage arranged in such a way that it informs and expresses a point of view."

Zebra

Why does he have to prove cause and effect there? They ARE Bush's cronies. They ARE making money off the war. Whether they won contracts because of their donations doesn't effect the truthfulness of the statement "Bush's cronies are making money off the war."

Zebra

Moore's not a journalist and has never claimed to be one, to the best of my knowledge. He's a propagandist. I'm not sure why you're confused about this, since he's never tried to hide his goals.

Rampage

Maybe he just wants to know which statements you're specifically addressing. "Read the news much?" doesn't tell him which point you're making, unless you want an answer for every charge the media has made.

jex

Add to that the control of afghanistan and the massive oil and gas reserves of the caspian sea, the trillions of dollars that will come from it and more control of the worlds energy resources then you begin to see what the point of it is.

Or put it this way, since the government knew there weren't any WMD's, etc, why would they wish to spend billions on going to war? If Saddam posed no threat (which he didn't, his 'army' was useless - the 'elite guard' no better trained than the national guard), what other motive could there possibly be considering no war that has been fought for anything other than power gain (be that political, strategical or financial). The 'liberation' excuse now flying around was never an original reason for going to war - it's played out all day long now because it's the only excuse they have left.

I suspect that moore highlights a lot about this but his news isn't new news, it's already out there, sourced and provable if you care to look.

Meanwhile our freedoms are eroded day by day and no-one bats an eye. In the UK police now have the power (and are aggressivley exercising it) to stop and search anyone. They can even enter your house now when they want. So why now do we need this power? Why after 30 years of the IRA was this deemed not needed and yet all of a sudden it is? This is BS and it is terrorism on the populace treading its way toward a global facsist dictatorship under the guise of democracy.

Ben Franklin said it best: "Those who are willing to sacrifice essential freedom for security deserve neither."

EDIT: was replying to Zebra's post and in that time another 4 or 5 got in

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Jex

Zebra

The mobile biological weapons labs that weren't mobile biological weapons labs, the aluminum tubes for centrifuges that weren't aluminum tubes for centrifuges, the yellowcake uranium that Saddam wasn't trying to buy, the meeting between Atta and the Iraqi intelligence agent in Prague that didn't happen, etc. There were doubts about all of this information prior to the war, but the administration was sort of selective in the facts it chose to accept and present... kind of like Moore.

leejo

Down is up. Up is down. I can be pithy too.

Let's spend less time being smart-asses and more time showing each other respect. Please?

Rampage

Thank you.