Fait_Maker

You beat me to it because I had such a long post to write

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leejo

Well I'm not sure about all of this discussion but I'm pretty sure that MM's mother is fat.

DudeMan

im sorry i didnt know anyone was disputing this, damn i am shocked, i dont juust hold them to a higher standard, they should not be biased.

ok i expect bias and crap from a tabloid monkey trained to be patriotic and agree with everything a socialist government throws at them, (even though i am socialist) but a reporter in every sense of the word should do exactly that report. leave the persoanl crap behind and report the situation as it occurs, we allow our news readers to point of a few things, and we at the same time should not accept half truths from a REPORTER.

where is the problem here, i really cant see how this can be interpreted any other way...

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

DudeMan

oh now come on leejo where is the relevence here, if there is enlighten me but really that was kind of a wasted comment.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

Fait_Maker

Ender wanted to know why I would hold Moore to a higher standard than anyone else. I was saying I don't hold just Moore to that standard but all journalists. I believe that if he is making a documentary that it should be based on a journalistic standard and that's how get get to that. Otherwise, he shouldn't call it a documentary but categorize it for what it is is, fiction.

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_Ender_

In Moore's case.. no.. do I agree with him, no. He should of just stated facts, all facts, not just some of them.... but if he did, then he wouldnt of made money bashing Bush.

luna

I love it when Fait breaks out the Logic 101!

Too bad that outside of philosophy class, it means nothing to the average joe.

It's truly unfortunate.

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Resurgent's New Motivational Motto:
"Now train harder! Live inside your character! If it dies, YOU DIE! Focus!"

Jesus had a soulstone.

_Ender_

Moore isnt a journalist though, he's a filmaker. Besides, Bill O'Reily puts his opinions on reports all the time, I dont see you attacking him.

Link? They "donated" therefore they got top billings on the Iraqi contracts. What else do you want? Secret tapes of them in the shower?

It doesnt matter anyway, from what I have read half of their findings are false and they made some of it up (they Moored it LOL) to prove their points.

The best documentaries have opinions in them, you just need to see through them.

You hate him because, you claim (and are right), that Moore didnt present all the facts in his documentary. The Republican National Convention is going to open with a "docmentary" about Bush, do you actually think they're going to present all the facts on him? Do you actually think that they're going to tell everybody that Bush was a gaint coke head until he was 30? The Democrats are going to make a "documentary" about Kerry to be shown at the Democratic convention, do you honestly believe they're going to give you all the facts on Kerry also? If you believe that, then you're nieve. There are always two sides to the story, and no body is going to give you both sides. They will always present you with the side that they agree with. Are they bad for that? No, its what they agree with. I dont expect people to argue for a side that they disagree with... which is what you want. If you want a true documentary, then watch both sides of the story. Both of the opinions, bother of the crap that they're going to sling.

Now I will agree with you on one thing. Moore shouldnt have lied in the film. He should of presented just the facts, and not fudged some of them. That IMHO discredits a lot of what the movie was about, which is a shame because its a good movie thats only hold back is the fact that Moore insisted on lying to present a better side for him.

ok i'm done.

Fait_Maker

That's a red herring. We aren't talking about O'Reilly and I know nothing of him anyway.[/quote]

Where are you from? It specifically said "Many of the US firms which won lucrative Iraqi reconstruction contracts are major donors to President George W Bush's political campaigns." Nowhere does it state, "Because they donated, they got top billings". Let's just make up stuff as we go. That would be like saying "The majority of battered people that got counseling were women. They got counseling because they were women".

I don't hate anyone. I dislike him because, as previously stated, he made money off his lies and will probably sway an election.

No, I don't want someone telling lies and portraying it as fact. Will the parties put lies in their documentaries? Probably and that's wrong too. Giving one side is not what I've been arguing about. Making bull**** claims and lies and getting money off it is my problem.

It discredits all of it. If he's going to lie about any part of it, which part was it? Since I don't know everything he lied about, I have to throw it all away as bad. This is why I don't bother with Michael Moore. American patriot. Bollocks.

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_Ender_

So you want them to spell it out for you? But didnt you just say that you didnt want the media to say every thing our government is doing?

Politicans make money off of lies all the time.. oh yeah thats right, you expect politicans to lie thats why you will excuse them.

Not really much you can do about it. Boycott the movie, stop talking about the movie and Moore.


I disagree. The movie does have facts in it that people should look at, just because he fudged a few things doesnt mean the entire movie is crap. You just need to look between the lies to the find the truth. Its hard, but possible.

If you dont know everything he lied about, then how do you know he lied at all? Or are you just reading that from web site? The thing with web sites are, every web site that says one thing, I can find another web site that says the exact opposite. Thats why you need to learn how to weed out the bs for yourself. Every movie like this is going to have its own basis, its your job to look beyond that at the actual facts.

CingularDuality

Just to interject here, in almost every single show I've heard, Bill clearly states that he's not a news reporter, but that he is a news analyst that is offering his perspective on current events. He often slams newspapers and other news outlets for having such biased reporting in any section other than the Opinion or Editorial section.

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_Ender_

ahh ok my bad... thanks for clarifying that Dave.

Fait_Maker

No, I think you are drawing a conclusion that isn't there. Conspiracy theorists do tend to read between the lines, though.



No, I expect you to back up your claims with actual fact. Which politician made money from lying and exactly how? You haven't listed ONE thing Ender. Yet you continue to walk down "Baseless Claim Blvd".


I will not stop pointing out Moore's bull**** because that is my right as a citizen. I have the freedom of speech or has that been taken away without my knowledge?


Whatever.

My child lies to me and confesses to it. The fact that I may not know everything they lied about takes nothing away from the fact that I know they lied. You have an interesting way of looking at things and I'm to the point that I think you are replying just to stir the pot. I'll not take your bait any longer. I will, however, stop debating this with you since it is apparent to me that you want no real discourse on the matter. Good day sir.

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_Ender_

Then Moore will continue to make money... people dont get it. If you want a movie to not make money, then dont talk about it.

_Ender_

its exactly what it is.. thats why I hardly ever get into this types of arguments.. you also can never argue with somebody who is pro Bush.. anything anybody says about him is wrong.. Bush is god of everything... bleh...