thebleakaffinity

Great post Grunt.

I also took issue with this statement:
Saying "I don't say this to be a racist" doesn't make the statement any less prejudiced, especially when you follow it up by claiming it to be fact. Anectodal and personal experience does not equal fact. The presumption that the purportedly antagonizing black community has it out for police officers, when held by a police officer, can only serve to increase race related tensions and issues.

JMJ

I'm guessing you don't read the news much. This is usually the case anytime a white officer shoots a black suspect. Sad, but true. Pointing out the truth does not make one a racist.

thebleakaffinity

Labeling sweeping generalizations as truth does make one a poor debater, though.

JMJ

If you spend anytime in the law enforcement community, you will quickly learn that this is not a sweeping generalization. Officers get crucified by everyone (especially the media/news) except for other officers it seems. To say they are hated by a lot of people would be an understatement. Even if the officers in this shooting have been found to have made a good shoot, you won't see the media jumping on the bandwagon to say so, and you will still have the race warlord types pushing the family for a civil lawsuit.

You'd like to think that that type of racism doesn't exist anymore, but it does. I'm sure Cing can backup Magnum's statement with no problems.

Magnum50

Believe what you want about me being a "racist", I know the truth and in this type of forum will state my honest opinion... This post, or thread is not a DEBATE, it was a request from non-LEO's to give me there 2 cents on a shooting... not to discuss police and race relations...

but thanks for the input folks.

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CingularDuality

OK, so, let's say that Magnum's statement was a "sweeping generalization". Can you cite the exception that makes this generalization untrue? While you're at it, can you help Pickle find the instance where the ACLU defended a police officer?

The fact is that there are some in the black community that are willing to "play the race card" and whip up emotionally charged situations into accusations of racism, regardless of whether racism was involved in the shooting.

And someone mentioned police being "contemptuous". I think that "cynical" is more accurate, although, to an outsider, they might appear to be the same.

And, Rince? I'm glad that you, at least, remembered my post. I thought I was in the twilight zone or something for a minute...

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Toshido

After first video I was shocked at the number of times the officer on the right fired. Seemed to take that long for the guy to go down though.
Noticed what looked like a puff of smoke to the left and little curious about that.
Also appeared that the first officer to the body stomped on something on the ground, hand, weapon???

Well time for video #2

Toshido

Wow. Going back tot hte first video you could actually see momentary glimpses of the guys gun.
Very different story from that second video.

Toshido

A little off tpoic but still related.

I used to do a lot of paintball. Tournements, big games, rec play etc... Part of this obsession was reading paintball magazines.
One topic I read was about using paintball pistols as a law enforcement training aid. Officers would go against trainers in "realistic" scenarios.
The pintball shooters were modified to flash a little light near their muzzles when the fired. All these training sessions were of course taped.

now the relevant part.

One of the scenarios had the trainer standing at a counter with his shooter in front of him. Officer nehind him, shooter drawn an aimed. A shoot out of course ensued. The surprising thing was the that the trainer could turn around, acquire a target, and fire faster than an officer could pull the trigger.
Of course this all happened so fast that it took reviweing the video tapes to see that.

My point is that even with the perps back to the officers he was still a deadly threat.

Pickle

Well, still play a lot of paintball here. Just got back from the world's largest paintball game in Oklahoma. But that is another thread.

I have seen this video before and it is a good shoot. Yes, it take the guy a bit to go down but that is the difference between Hollywood and LIFE. While standing, while holding the gun, while acting erractically he was still a threat no matter how many rounds were either shot at him or in him. Keep in mind also that if they were using ball ammo this is a likely effect (still standing). Had a case of someone I know (we'll keep it at that) that was involved in a shooting. Bank robbery suspect shot at three deputies. The three deputies hit him 20+ times. he stood for a while. I have seen that video. The department changed from ball ammo after that.

As far as the racist allegations...I am backing Magnum on that. Why, because I see it all the time. If you are a cop I don't need to explain it because you live it. If you are not a cop go read "Are Cops Racist", by Heather Mac Donald. I am not the least bit racist but Magnum is right. And yes, I am white.

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CingularDuality

You mean his cell phone?

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