Fait_Maker

I didn't berate him. I offered a possible clarification to his post since I believe Dudeman misunderstood.

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Benny_

ok, to fire you all up, is it ok to force change upon people, eradicate thier culture and force the 'western way' upon them in the name of freedom?

Yes all people are born equal, but sadly with the cultures that inhabit this world, people will never all have that freedom throughout their lives.

leejo

Well that's a good question. Are you suggesting that we should mourn the loss of the slave culture in this country?

People have rights, cultures do not.

Benny_

Absolutely I do not disagree.

Is a democracy forced onto a nation the right way? The in-equality of women for example in the Arab states, is another example. You'll never free everyone, is it fair to pick and choose who 'we' save, or is there some kind of point system?

I don't disagree that freedom is a right, and I don't disagree that everyone should be able to exercise that right, but I do accept that it will never be the case, and I also question who we are to dish out our way of life as the right way.

DudeMan

until the 1920's women in the UK sis not have the riht to vote, the suffragetts didnt exactly ask very nicely for the country to change. did they not deserve this right. were they not supposed to force their opinion.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

asch

There is a difference between the slavery that existed in the US and what is happening overseas, to some extent at least.

We may believe that everyone is born equal, etc., etc. However, in some cultures and religions, this is not always the case. Is it right for us to break that down, no matter what our beliefs are? Other countries don't believe in separation of religion / state as we do. They build their government off of it. They tend towards the fundamentalism style government.

Suppose that there are people born into that country / government that don't have their beliefs. Are they subject to those laws? I would think so. People born in the US are subject to the laws regardless of whether they believe in them or not. Granted, we have a better system for making changes, but they are subject to them none-the-less.

Now I'm not trying to pick sides or debate whether what we did in recent years was right or not. The questions I posed above are questions I've always asked. To me, we're imposing our values on them.

Ok... so how would a country like the US deal with a fundamentalist country that doesn't support freedom? Great question and I don't have an answer. We've tried sanctions, restrictions, little monetary support, etc. In some cases it's worked. Slow progress was made, but it was progress. In some other cases, no progress was made and the other country managed on their own.

And then there are other cases where that country takes offense to it and sees those sanctions as the US imposing on them. Some sort of conflict is more than likely to eventually arise. In a sense I'd say many of the US - MidEast conflicts are similar to this.

Again, not trying to pick sides on these topics... just posing questions.

Mudshark

Thank Lucifer you said it! I was thinking I would have to point out the obvious irony of berating those who oppose the views of the (outspoken?) majority here.

leejo

People have rights, ideas do not. Free speech doesn't mean consequence-free speach, and it doesn't mean folks don't get to call silly ideas silly.

Thank Lucifer? Good lord what a silly thing to say. Keep up the good fight little buddy.

DudeMan

iim sorry who here has told jex he cannot hold his opinions, noone we have replied to his comment displaying the faults and frailties as we see them. do not try to supress peoples ability to do this by suggesting we are somehow opressing jex. we are not, he is free to post what he wishes but if people see the ironies or plain contradictions in what he says then they are free to say them.

the idea that we are picking on jex is stupid, you are free to have the idea but i think you are completly wrong, if you agree with jex speak up and he will not have been so alone in his idea but it will not stop those who see his opinion as flawed from expressing their views.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

NewsWrthy

Ok here we go. :-) this is what I was looking for. the cultures that so many are afraid of distroying are forcable imposed by a very few radicals, who will stop at nothing. you have a small group that has been in power in many of these counties. They rule with fear and agression. I angers me when people say that we are inforcing our values upon any one. These are BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS, not a value system or religion. freedom from opression and dictitorial government control of your life. The freedom of knolage and speach are peramont. In the UK and the USA we have the right to learn(men and women)and talk openly about what we have learned and how we feel about it. If the government comes in the middle of the night and yanks you from your bed, there are rules of law thay say that you must be granted council,fair and just treatment, trial by a jury of your peers, and that you must be charged with some thing. I know that laws are being passed to divert some of these rights in the name of National security, but we as a free people to stop those laws, through our repesentitives. Look at the Amish peoples of the US they live in a democrecy where they are free to practice a religion that keeps them in an 1800s technical world. Our value system hasn't hurt them, but istead alowed them to be. In many of these counties they wouldn't have that right or choice. Oh and don't mention womens rights in the Amish comunity(:-) I know), it is a choice mad during Runspringa.

leejo

I challenge those who moan the hypothetical loss of a hypothetical culture to state something specific they feel is being lost in a culture or religion that is being destroyed. We don't live in a hypothetical world, so lay it down. What's going away that you think is worth fighting for?

Brooklyn

Well Well This is a meaty subject for ME !!!!

Brooklyn

First the Europeans way of thinking is that there are an elite class of people whom are smart enough rich enough and arrogant enough to believe that they know what is best for mankind. While we here in America believe in a Jewdayo christian as an approach to life with the Bible as our guide. For example look how the Europeans view our President G.Bush as dum , short sighted and a C in college well thats outragous!
They just dont get it and wonder why America is soo blessed in so many ways.. Its because we have a people of convicion on what is right we believe there is absolute truth and we are for the most part a law abiding people. Now Im not an educated man but I know that adultry is wrong , I know that murder is wrong , I know that homosexuality is WRONG . And I do have a RIGHT TO VOTE ! Praise GOD.

Benny_

Well thank god for freedom of speech and expression, as long as it doesn't include the dirty gays eh?

Mudshark

My apologies, I'll conform. Praise Jesus our Lord and Savior!!