jex

[quote=NewsWrthy]
I'm not denying that safeguards need to be in place but to say we are free is a misnomer. We are told what to do and we comply by that. True freedom does not exist.

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Jex

DudeMan

#


wait your kiddint right, you made comments about loosing your job with respects to loosing your life. dont go crying because people commented.

and if you think i attacked you , ok then take it as an insult, nothing i can do about that. but there wasnt one part involved, so dont victimize.

to e honest fenix you have a misguided view of society if you can stand up and say that there would be no repercussions. sorry dont care about whether its fair or right, i am thinking of the chilldren involved and i will not accept your wacky liberal comments in the idealistic world where everyone has the same oppotunities.

i am all about equality, but lets face the facts you dont have it, and niether my country or yours have never had it.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

DudeMan

really

you believe that do you jex, big fricken deal you are toold not to murder, you are told not to drinkl and drive, you are told to get out of buss lanes.

actually you have the freedom to choose whether you comply. that is the freedom. you choose who to vote for in an election, that is freedom.

you do not have to do military service just because you are the right age, that is freedom. you are free to write books in this country about whatever you want without fear of dying.

infact jex in this country you can commit any crime you wish and you will not die. i think thats freedom gone too far, but thats how our free and just society has deemed we must treat those in prison.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

TheFeniX

Never said that, but the only repercussions I forsee are fanatics screaming in the streets about Judgement Day and gay people being killed by the same psychos.

And it was also pretty safe to say people knew that giving women and minorities the right to vote would have repercussions: they would then be able to vote. How about allowing American women to express themselves by wearing a dress that doesn't come down to their ankles. I mean, God Forbid, some kid might see the femenine outline and start thinking about how attractive the female figure is. The World is Doomed!™

Societal Evolution is not a painless movement. But things have to change for the better.

"Oh God please, won't someone think of the children!"

It's funny that "freedom" became a "liberal" concept. Provide proof that having a gay parent causes a child harm. Reputable sources based on scientific research I've found (and I've looked): 0.

For your information: I used to be a conservative up until Bush went "Church Crazy" and showed me how bad it could be. I have since found a party that I can mostly agree with: Libertarians.

My (and your) personal freedoms trump anyone's opinion on what's moral/right.

Until you can prove either:
A. letting gay couples adopt kids (when even now, if it's their biological child, they can keep him/her) somehow infringes on another person's rights.
B. Infringes on the childs right by harming him/her in a direct way. (Getting laughed at in school because your dad is gay is not a direct way).

Then you will basically be repeating the same boring arguement. The Burden of Proof is on those wanting to restrict personal freedoms, not on those who want to express their freedom.

Yes, but at least I would like to see society try. Not just get caught up in semantic ramblings. You can go on-and-on about the "There's no true equality/freedom." Heck, biology doesn't even really allow for equality, but I'm tired of hearing semantics used as proof in an arguement.

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Fait_Maker

Again Dude. QUOTE ME. Where did I say you are attacking gay people? I'll not ask again. I will ask that you stop purporting that I did when I haven't.

I'll agree to disagree since it's obvious to me you are only going to see what you choose to see, no matter what I say. You haven't bothered to read anything I have said. You couldn't and still post what you just posted. I disagree with your assumptions based on your experiences, because they don't hold true with my life experiences.

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DudeMan

oh ok fenix, you obviously know about this research coz you said you do....

and futher more the emotional strain fo growing up completly different to everyone else is the problem.

sicence as established that single parent chilldren have a harder time socialising with other chilldren because they do not get the vital qualities from their mother and those from their father.

when i child is growing up it learns from its parents on how to socialise, now the child is growing up with two gay men, its social skills lack some, it will have a hard time.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

Fait_Maker

People were mean to me because of my last name and I was fat in school. Still am. So I guess I'll be against allowing adoptions to fat people for fear their lifestyle will hurt their childs. <Yes, I really see your arguement as silly as that.>

You friend was worried to tell you something for fear you would hate him. That speaks more about your friendship than anything you could say here. Why would he assume you hate would hate him? Did you leave him with an assumption that you disliked gay people and couldn't have a friend who was? I'm just asking.

My life experience... I've got a brother who is gay. My best friend is bisexual, but leans toward hetero. I've got a several close friends who are gay and several internet friendships. Everyone knows they are gay and they don't get berated. Nobody really cares. They didn't come out until after high school. School children suck. That's the bottom line.

You still haven't convinced me that gay parents is the absolute detriment to the child that you believe it to be. Here in the States, in common daily life, most people wouldn't care or even know. The only people I really see giving gays a hard time are school children and adult bullies <who would give anyone a hard time for being different. It doesn't have to be gay.>. I see religious people openly hostile to gays, but not all. Most religious people I personally know have a view against it, but let bygones be bygones. They just aren't the type of people to give anyone a hard time for anything. That's my experiences and my views. I just don't think your culture is the same as the States.

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DudeMan

for christ sake fait look at your own damn post ask yourself this


did you take anything i said on board and agree, no, why because you dont agree. remember this you may think your argument is the best in the world. i dont. thats why i took nothing. i read all your posts.

i dont agree with you... get that and move on, it is not a comment on you or me thta i dont suck up what you have said.

so dont enforce it like it is something i have to do. i do not agree with you

your arguments have not convinced me

our ideologies are not the same

dont insinuate i am ignorant because of this oh and just before you bother thats insinuating ignorance. i read it, no i didnt take it on i thought it was crap. sorry but its true.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

Fait_Maker

Can you back that statement up with a thesis or some documentation? I really hate assuming you are correct just because you said it.

Personally, my mother divorced when I was 9. I didn't see my father again until I was 20 years old. I'm an extrovert. I'll talk to anyone on the street, standing in line, whatever. I socialize. Maybe I'm the exception, but you posted about your girlfriend's life as proof, so I'm going to post about mine.

My gay brother is an extrovert too. You can't get him to shut up. Heck, none of my brothers and sister know how to shut up. We talk to everyone. Everyone is a new friend!

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Fait_Maker

So what you are saying here is "Fait, I can't find where you said I attack gay people and I'm sorry".

Your apology is accepted. Thank you.

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DudeMan

yes fait so you can go back to trying to change everyones opinion now, then calling them ignorant if they dont agree.

we are talkiing about adoptions i had made it clear that i didnt agree with gay sex but didnt say anything against them they can do wha they want,

my objections that gay couples and chilldren are unatural.ill stand by that

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

DudeMan

hmmm yes like ill apologise to you,

why would i do that again, is it between being patronised, or bing called ignorant. hmmm yeah really feel the urge to apologise.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

leejo

For what other things is "natural" your standard?

DudeMan

what???????????

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

TheFeniX

Msg
From: Pot
To: kettle

Message Body:
You're black.

You can't find what doesn't exist. You are trying to prove having Gay parents hurts a child. The burden is solely on you.

Just like a man does not have to provide evidence of innocence in a trial, gays don't have to prove they don't affect their kids.

What are you talking about? Everyone is different. It's the reason we have problems in the first place. People just don't like those who are different from them. I've already stated this and you ignored me.

The "completely different" comment makes no sense either. How is the child different? He's a normal kid who happens to have homosexual parents. Does that make him worse off than the kid with an alcoholic mom and abusive father? I guess so because that's the wholesome view of family life...

Are you trying to say that a kid with two "normal" parents will get farther in life than a kid with two gay parents? I'd love to see you prove that. Do you happen to have more "life experience" that you will use in the absense of proof?

Red Herring. Has nothing to do with two gay parents. The whole "latchkey kid" problem stems from a parent who is never home because some people have to work for a living. Stop dodging the arguement.

Emphasis mine.

1. You can't even prove that.
2. Many kids lack social skills based around too much time in front of the PC or console gaming system.
3. The wording is just horrible.
A. "lack some"
B. "have a hard time"

How about rather than growing up with two gay parents, you grow up in a foster home with 100 other kids spending your life like a dog in a kennel hoping some nice people pick you up and give you a good home, which the administrators hate because you being there means they get more money.

You can have it, I'd take the two gay guys anyday. Better to grow up in that kind of home rather than no home at all.

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